What digital caliper?

[PAC1]

I gave up on digital earlier this year and went back to mechanical dials. I trust the measurement more but the real benefit is I use them more. With digital you either keep the battery in the house or the unit somewhere warm over winter but then it is a faff to check the dimension as you either have to assemble it or go find it or both. Now it is where it should be and ready to go. Quick easy and accurate

 

[Gerry]

Oh dear. I bought one... and a month later it reads precisely half the actual measurement.
So I bought another. This one will give a different measurement for the same tube every time I pick it up.

Yes, they were cheap.
So what do I buy (that might be a bit more costly, without being a second mortgage) that works consistently and accurately?

These are part of my day job as a calibration technician.
I have seen this before and it is usually cured by removing the battery for a minute then putting it back in.
To get a consistent measurement you need to use the same point on the calipers jaws and consistent pressure. It takes practice and patience to get "the touch". if possible measure as far up the caliper jaws as possible on the flat part rather than the blade
.
I currently have a Sylvac vernier that is accurate to 1 micron which cost nearly £300 but most of them on the shop floor (50+) are budget Senator or M&W calipers costing less than a tenner. These are consistently reliable and accurate to 10 microns with good repeatability.
To get the most out of the battery lock the slide when not using it. Most calipers auto on (this doesn't mean the display always comes to life) and locking the slide helps prevent this. Most batteries last over a year with daily usage.

Gerry

 

[Eric The Viking]

Gerry's advice above is excellent.

I supposedly have three of these things, all relatively inexpensive.

I have managed to lose the one with the largest display, and it was also the most reliable, consistent and accurate (Tchibo). I am now stuck with either one that occasionally skips measurements when moving the jaw (but doesn't seem to be inaccurate), or one from Lidl which is completely unreliable at small values.

So I'm heading in the direction of Moore & Wright, DML or even Mitutoyo, as I use them a lot. Ideally I'd like one that will do fractional inches too, but those don't seem available to similar quality. If you look at the reviews, you find comments that reflect my experience. And realistically there isn't going to be much QC applied to something as cheap as these usually are. Plan (A)is Amazon, but I might go to Axminster, as their service is so good.

There is no magic in this: I have a Gem Red angle box which is pretty rubbish, as was one of their hinged rules (for angles - threw it away as quite untrustworthy). I now have one of the latter that does work properly. It seems to be a lottery, and expensive doesn't seem to mean accurate or reliable, apart from the big brands.

If you're lucky and get a good one, they're brilliant, but I won't go to Lidl for that sort of thing again, as being untrustworthy (in measurements) is worse than anything else. Being able to take it back for a refund is small compensation after you've messed up something because it lied to you.

Custard's idea of a mechanical, dial one, is also under consideration, as that is straightforward too.

I'll settle for poor precision, but not errors in repeatability or accuracy.

DML from Amazon is favourite at the moment.

 

[novocaine]

I've built up a collection of these over the years, ranging from the frankly ludicrous to the sublime, both digital and analogue.
they all measure close enough for what I need them for.
I have a 2 quid pair of plastic (apparently carbon reinforced, but as they bend like a good one I dowt that) digital calipers from banggood sit on the shelf above the bench for a those "quick check" types of work. Theres a set of aldi ones under the pillar drill for "better check that" types of work where I need it to be metal on metal and close enough.
Theres 2 sets above the lathe, a "rough gauge" set and a "this needs to be within tolerance" set, one's lidl one's mitutoyo.
then there is the calibrated (within 6 months) set of Mits (both analogue and digital, and a set of imperial) that lives in a sealed box along with the other measurement tools and surface plate, they only get used for real work.

whats all this supposed to mean? basically buy a cheap as chips set from china for day to day (the plastic ones have last 5 months so far on 1 battery) and a decent/ mid price set for when it matters. you don't need starrett, mitutoyo or moore and wright, but if you have the money to splash, then go for it (says he with a rather large collection of second hand mits and M&W).

Then unless you are doing what custard is doing, or making pens, use a scale, you'll be within 1/2mm, at which point your well within tolerance as far as wood that moves is concerned.

As to measuring half what they should, change the battery, they don't last forever.

 

[Beau]

I have both a digital and a dial type and the dial is far more convenient. No need for batteries and zeroing. My dial one is a Draper but 20 years old so doubt they make it the same now. The digital one is from Lidl and no problems with it for it's type.

 

[Lazurus]

I have been making pens on and off for twenty years on the lathe and have yet to use any sort of measuring device due to the bushes and mandrel used, have I been missing something?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I've had three cheap calipers and ultimately reverted to an ex WD M&W vernier I picked up for a fiver or micrometers.

 

[ED65]

Aldi calipers here too. I've found you do have to be careful how you hold it when running it in or out or it'll ready very wrong, and it is sensitive to battery freshness, but I've found it invaluable and I wouldn't want to be without it.

I went looking for a dial type on the advice of a mentor but they weren't available here except for silly money so digital it was.

There is no real value for calipers in woodworking if you can know what to do with the line. Save your money and make a decent marking gauge.

Sorry have to completely disagree. I can't tell you the number of times I have needed my calipers in ways that, evidently, aren't obvious. Real-world problems that might confront any woodworker, like comparing diameters on dowels with the drill bit that supposedly matches (and you might find does not), getting a more accurate measure on a screw for a pilot hole than eyeballing provides. These are numpty little things but are actually really important when they get in your way.

It'll also measure inside gaps and depth in a recess, which I had no way of checking at all or with any accuracy beforehand. Rare I need to do so but great to be able to when I do.

With the digital ones being so accurate as a bonus you get to do the occasional anal checking of plane shavings to check how you've progressed in comparison to the measurements posted online and in a couple of books. Sub-thou shavings FTW 8)

 

[Tasky]

My great grandfather, grandfather and father would chuckle with merriment at the thought of calipers being used for wood working. All of them were time served cabinet makers.

I'm sure they would and I'm sure they were... but not everyone here has served a 50-year career in cabinet making and sometimes it's easier to just measure the thing you're working on/with/in, especially where there's a mix of metric and imperial.

 

[MatthewRedStars]

I make furniture all day every day and I use my calipers all the time.

I don't potter around twiddling my thumbs, I can't, I have to get on and do it, and calipers are essential for fast repeatable machine set ups, checking material thickness etc etc in a professional setting.

Saying they don't have a place in woodworking is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[marcros]

I have been making pens on and off for twenty years on the lathe and have yet to use any sort of measuring device due to the bushes and mandrel used, have I been missing something?

possibly. It is going way off topic to the OP, but

1. turning them between centres, where you don't have the bushes for the kit you are turning.
2. the bushes are not always well made, and/or sized to the kit components. Calipers enable a much better fit between the wood and the metal.
3. kitless pens.

if you have never needed them in 20 years and have success with what you are producing, you are not missing anything. I wouldn't me without mine though.

 

[hawkeyefxr]

I am taking it that it's a metal one (i have seen plastic ones). The old type relied on how good your eyes are, i would have difficulty seeing any lines these days.
They will read differently according to the ambient temperature as metal expands and contracts.
I have five dotted around the house, shed and garage. I take the batteries out when i finish using them just to make the batteries last longer, it only takes seconds to put them back in.
I know i will regret this but working in wood and measuring in thousandths of an inch or what ever it is in millipedes is really pushing it. Drills and other metal objects is ok.
Even using a micrometer you can get strange readings, if you use the small ratchet at the end you will get accurate down to a tenth of a thou, i used one for years and you get a feel for it without using a ratchet.
When i was at college during my apprenticeship i saw a guy using two 1in mics as g clamps whilsr drilling, he buggered both of them as he really did crank them down to hold the job lol, truth.

 

[Lons]

I have a standard one I bought 25 years ago as well as 2 other cheapie digital versions and use them on virtually every project, I can't imagine my workshop without them.

Like a lot of other tools, you can get by without them but why do so if they can make life easier and quicker.
I guess it's a bit like a tape measure, I have at least half a dozen Stanley tapes but seriously doubt they are identical so use the same tape throughout a job.

When making pens I never rely on bushes as they vary, as do the kit components and if you catch the bushes while sanding they change anyway. I try to use cones when sanding and polishing for that reason.

 

[colinc]

Hi,

I am going to have to say just bite the bullet and buy Mitutoyo (did I spell that correctly?). I bought some cheap ones but was never able to trust them as they were temperamental. Mine is absolutely reliable and the batteries last for ages.

Colin

 

[dzj]

My great grandfather, grandfather and father would chuckle with merriment at the thought of calipers being used for wood working. All of them were time served cabinet makers. The only thing you need to work out is whether to cut and leave the line, take the line or bisect the line.

There is no real value for calipers in woodworking if you can know what to do with the line. Save your money and make a decent marking gauge.

In the past, this was no doubt the case.
Nowadays when joints are done on a spindle moulder, for a nice fit, I aim for
tolerances often less than 0.1mm. Hard to keep track of this without a caliper.

 

[Racers]

I don't care about anybody laughing at me for using digital calipers, progress can't be stopped and I am sure your ancestors would have welcomed central heating electric light and hospitals, and might have used calipers once they found out how useful they are.

Pete

 

[julianf]

Hi,

I am going to have to say just bite the bullet and buy Mitutoyo (did I spell that correctly?). I bought some cheap ones but was never able to trust them as they were temperamental. Mine is absolutely reliable and the batteries last for ages.

Colin

All the talk above of batteries running out is alien to me too. Ive had my small set for the best part of 10 years. Im sure i must have changed the batteries at some point, but it certainly hasnt happened often enough that I even remember doing so!

 

[squib]

I have a couple of sets of cheapies ,one bought after the other kept going flat!
So now i leave off the battery cover and just drop the battery in an out each time I need them, which is not that often, and they have both been very reliable for many years and I can't remember when I last changed the battery.
My grandad would have chuckled too, but I reckon he would have fired up his laptop and ordered one off the internet and realized how time saving some of these new tools are ,if he had the option.
Can't imagine how much he would have loved the Festool domino!

 

[deema]

Well, as I’m the subject of much merriment which has made me smile as much as everyone whose read the responses I’m sure.

There have been a few instances thrown out where the ‘Very Near’ is considered an essential tool. I would advocate that there are simpler and quicker solutions to every instance. The spindle moulder has been highlighted as an example, setting a spindle moulder with a Very Near can be done and is a solution, but it’s slow, time consuming and prone to error (especially at the end of the day) Looking for inspiration at either the Trend or Whitehill window and door tooling sets a quicker solution can derived. One of the main advantages of this system is that you don’t keep moving the spindle up and down, you simple set the height once and then every block can simply be used with you knowing they are all correctly set. If a little time is taken to work out with all of the blocks and cutters that you normally use what spacers and shims are needed to set each of the blocks to a known cutting height from a fixed spindle height all settings are then achieved in seconds without the need for multiple test cuts (you can use stackable tooling but I’m assuming that’s out of the reach of most). The process involves locking the spindle at a fixed height and then selecting spacers and shims (they are available at 0.1mm increments) to achieve the perfect cutter height. Make a note, or for the commercial environment keep the shims with the block and you can simple set the height of the spindle once and then change the blocks over to achieve what ever you want. Any adjustments for different thicknesses of material is done by adding or subtracting spacers and shims which have a known height. Adjusting the spindle height is time consuming and with backlash difficult to achieve repeatable results.

For tennons cut on a spindle the same thing applies. Use either gauge blocks, a stack of spacers and shims (you can then use the spacers and shims to set the cutter, removing or adding say a 0.1mm shim for a perfect fit) or my preference a hardwood block cut to the offset required (labelled). Set the Morticer with the block between the fence and the chisel. Cut the Mortice. Now having a known set of spacers and shims to achieve a good fit that has been done once at a known spindle height, plonk them on the spindle moulder and off you go.

The person using a Very Near is still working out if the batteries are any good when the old timers are in the pub having completed the work.

I retire to a safe distance with tin helmet safely in place and await the flak :roll:

 

[DTR]

My vernier (not digital) calipers get used all the time on the metal-working side of the shed (although I prefer a mic). I've rarely used the calipers for woodworking. The only example I can think of is checking the size of dowels, and only then because a vernier is quicker to use than the old bow-spring calipers.