Wet sharpening system advice

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guineafowl21

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This will be used for:
Hand tools, planer/thicknesser blades
Kitchen knives
Slaughter/butchery knives
Occasional home-made knives

The machine of choice seems to be a Tormek. The cheaper ones look like they’d do the job, but after-sales service and spares is obviously not as good.

Second-hand Tormek prices are pretty high - for example, there’s an old Supergrind 2000 available, but with no accessories, for £250. Adding the accessories I would need puts the price up near £400, or close to the price of a new T-4, and over my budget.

Any advice/comments welcome.
 
If you are making stuff to sell I can see that a sophisticated machine might pay for itself but if you are just sharpening for yourself you could get away with a disc sander for shaping and grinding, then hone by hand.
Best thing for knives is the traditional steel - a few swipes every now and then is all you need for lifetime of sharpening.
Would a tormek do planer blades, and keep them balanced? I send mine off.
PS Jig for sharpening HSS planer blades SVH-320 | Tormek UK Had a look. Will do them but I'd wonder about balance. Perhaps not worth buying a machine for this alone
 
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Tormek. Slow and messy. Did I mention slow?
Clones, slow and messy and less precise jigs generally, but cheaper.
Steel only hones (rolls the edge back over) and does not sharpen. Good way to ruin fine quality knives, but OK for cheapish chefs and butchery knives if you must. Ceramic ones will sharpen but can be very aggressive.
If you are making knives, and want speed and no mess, I would look for a linisher. There are many available ranging from the Robert Sorby or Axminster variants, to large ones used by knife makers. It takes a VERY long time to shape a blade on a wet stone unless you are using the metre diameter ones as used in Japanese artisanal knife makers.
You can use water stones if you want to go wet. You get what you pay for with these.
Of diamond stones.

Everything works. Everything has its compromises. Everyone has an opinion and some have a preference.

Doing planer / thicknesses blades. Really essential to use a jig on a diamond plate or wet & dry on glass. Frankly, much better to send them away for pro sharpening.
 
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Steel only hones (rolls the edge back over) and does not sharpen. Good way to ruin fine quality knives, but OK for cheapish chefs and butchery knives if you must. .....
Been using a steel for years. Keeps them sharp, no prob. Wouldn't be much good on a very blunt blade though - you'd need a stone.
I made a point of asking several butchers - they all use a steel but may revert to a stone, or send off, if a blade in very bad nick
 
Steel only hones (rolls the edge back over) and does not sharpen
True. A steel will correct a sharp knife with a burr, but won’t sharpen it. When cutting up carcasses I keep a steel handy and flick the knife on it whenever the blade hits bone. Smooth passes either side, not the showy, clattery way that Gordon Ramsey does.

I’ve not considered belt-type machines. Will have a look, thanks.
 
How do you sharpen your knives now, if steeling doesn't count?
Can't say I've seen Gordon Ramsey on the case! I do it the same way my dad did it, and no doubt the same way his dad did it. Seems to keep bread and carving knives sharp!
 
It's Ramsay, Jacob. Have you met him? I have. Most chefs use a steel as a hone but send the brigade knives out for sharpening or have the van and man come in. People who like quality knives will usually sharpen on a set of stones. Some graduate from pro-edge and similar gadgets.

Single bevel knives - ie most high quality Japanese No 1 or 2 carbon steel - do not fare well on a steel. :cool:

Think about it. Initial sharpening is done on some sort of stone or belt embedded with grit. As a knife wears, the edge obviously gets thicker. This is why we thin behind the edge periodically, and you can't do that on a steel.

The average home cook hardly uses a knife at all compared with a pro. Different strokes for different folks.

KR, Adrian
 
How do you sharpen your knives now, if steeling doesn't count?
Can't say I've seen Gordon Ramsey on the case! I do it the same way my dad did it, and no doubt the same way his dad did it. Seems to keep bread and carving knives sharp!
A truly sharp knife’s edge will burr over in use, and it will behave as if blunt. A steel can re-straighten the burr, and so give the impression of sharpening it. There will come a point when the steel will no longer works, as it doesn’t really remove material - at this point I will use a diamond plate.
 
OK makes sense.
So my carving knife has never been "sharpened" but has often been "steeled" and you can feel the difference, which is good enough for me!
It may not remove much material but I reckon it draws material to the edge, to make a it roughly saw like - extending a burr but having it straight out, not bent one side or the other. That's my theory so far!
 
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OK makes sense.
So my carving knife has never been "sharpened" but has often been "steeled" and you can feel the difference, which is good enough for me!
It may not remove much material but I reckon it draws material to the edge, to make a it roughly saw like - extending a burr but having it straight out, not bent one side or the other. That's my theory so far!
You presumably have a ridged steel, as opposed to the smooth type. It probably does have some stone-like action.
 
or you could follow a different path like so many others have done as whilst the Tormek method is fast it's also capable of quickly eating through your valuable chunks of steel... https://www.machinery4wood.co.uk/Ro...ViE7oVkh-DzEogO8DwQ-TxrWiu0NAGH0aAoehEALw_wcB which is a shade under £300 for a belt contraption

The tormek is much slower than any belt machine that's larger than a cox teedee engined contraption.

In fact, that's the problem with a tormek - it's overpriced and lumbering.

The sorby system looks like a wallet eating setup with proprietary belts. You can buy a real 2x42, 2x48 or 2x72 system for about the same price and get belts a lot cheaper and have a grinder that's strong enough for some tool making.

That said, an inexpensive dry grinder with a coarse wheel is the tool to go to for woodworking bits and pieces, and kitchen knives need only a crystolon stone added to whatever is being used (I could sharpen a kitchen knife faster on crystolon and india than a tormek could make a mess of them or before a user could make a wobbly looking bevel along the blade length on a belt griner.
 
How do you sharpen your knives now, if steeling doesn't count?
Can't say I've seen Gordon Ramsey on the case! I do it the same way my dad did it, and no doubt the same way his dad did it. Seems to keep bread and carving knives sharp!

The steel is segmented or smooth (like mirror smooth?). Butchers here and in most places use a smooth polished steel and have the knives sharpened when they need to be. They don't use prissy or expensive knives, just utilitarian blades kept in shape with a smooth steel. I've never seen a segmented or unpolished steel used by a serious butcher, but they can keep soft knives in shape for a long time for a home cook.

I use a smooth steel on the knives the mrs. uses but make or buy knives hard enough for the kitchen to be sharpened only. The mrs doesn't like my knives - they are thin beveled and honed very sharp. No nonsense like "bread knives" here. They're not needed of knives are actually sharp.
 
Steels have been used for a long long time and will sharpen a 'used' knife. Odd to hear people say they don't work. I wonder why.
They work particularly well on a serrated edge bread knife. Just 2 or 3 strokes.
 
.....

The average home cook hardly uses a knife at all compared with a pro. Different strokes for different folks.

KR, Adrian
Well yes.
I did have a foodie friend who made a great show of steeling his knives , presumably learnt Ramsay style.
We once arrived with him in a French gite and he was horrified to find that all the excellent Sabatier knives were blunt but there was no steel or other sharpening kit of any sort. I was able to show him the old boy-scout trick whereby you sharpen (or steel) one knife on the back of another. He wasn't all that impressed!
 
Best thing for knives is the traditional steel - a few swipes every now and then is all you need for lifetime of sharpening.


Really!!!! A steel will not sharpen a knife, merely hone the edge.
 
Really!!!! A steel will not sharpen a knife, merely hone the edge.
OK I'll rephrase that: "a few swipes every now and then is all you need for lifetime of honing and never need sharpening".:)
 
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I wonder if "I cannot sharpen a knife on a steel" is more accurate?
I made a living from a knife, sharpened on a steel (and other steel objects)
for two years. Then, it was 'important' to be able to sharpen (honing a blunt knife)
my gutting knife.
 
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