War finish Record No6

[Dangermouse]

Just finished restoring a war finish Record No6. Purchased a while ago at our local bootsale covered in a layer of surface rust and little paint left. Being war finish it has no plating, just polished steel instead. I was lucky to get my local paint man to mix me up a litre of Roundle Blue ( the original colour ) paint to use. Nothing was replaced just stripped, cleaned, polished, painted and varnished. I'm very pleased with the new decal I made, certainly finishes it off nicely.

 

[uk woodman]

Really Nice job mate, well done :mrgreen:

 

[Blister]

Ooo

shiny shiny :mrgreen:

 

[jimi43]

Very very nice indeed!

From the photos you appear to have got exactly the same tint as me for "Roundel Blue" which I think is far too light. The original appears darker IMHO... I think this is going to continue to be a mystery as either the paint darkens with age or they are telling porkies!

Just one tiny thing for future reference. The paint does not flow over the lip at sides or front or back...

I think it is really heartwarming that people are restoring these old workhorses (warhorses!)....bravo mate! How does it shave?

Jim

 

[Mike Wingate]

My mate has just finished destroying a No.6 Warfinished Record bought at a car boot sale. The blade was poor and would not take a good edge despite much flattening and grinding on his Tormek. He has also cut off and ground away about 2 1/2" off the rear of the casting. This makes a much better balanced plane with a longer front end than a 5 1/2. He has repainted the inside of the plane brown. It works well but...

 

[Dangermouse]

Very very nice indeed!

From the photos you appear to have got exactly the same tint as me for "Roundel Blue" which I think is far too light. The original appears darker IMHO... I think this is going to continue to be a mystery as either the paint darkens with age or they are telling porkies!

Just one tiny thing for future reference. The paint does not flow over the lip at sides or front or back...

I think it is really heartwarming that people are restoring these old workhorses (warhorses!)....bravo mate! How does it shave?

Jim

Hi Jim
That was the colour paint that matched the bs110 Roundel Blue, but as you say I have seen old planes prewar that were darker blue. But only thing I imagine is that after 60 odd years the paint takes in dirt and oil and darkens with time.
As to the paint on the base, I have a 4 and a 5 1/2 that has paint on the top of the sides and the back / front edges, then a 5 and a 4 1/2 that have none on those places. both pairs original condition. So I think both is correct, depends on how the painter felt on the day maybe. :lol:

 

[jimi43]

Hi DM

I think this is correct about the colour...and there are a huge number of variants out there with the original paint.

I want to try to get "old and darker" correctly...but I only managed it once and forget what colour I used!

My No.7

It is so annoying because I did this one ages ago and mixed the paint myself from Humbrol colour with blue and adding black but I bet I can't do it again!

Regarding the paint covering the edges...I think you may be right there too but the Record website shows the No.6 as unpainted in this area:

RECORD WEBSITE NO.6

At the end of the day...I am all for whatever the restorer wants to do...I was just interested in the amazing amount of variations there appear to be!

Yours is beautiful though! Great job mate!

Jim

 

[Dangermouse]

hi Jim
I might try to add a bit of black to my paint, but a bit scared of ruining it. Your No.7 is VERY nice. I just picked up a 1916 Stanley No7 at the bootsale last weekend. Its in very nice condition. Dont know if i will keep or sell yet, I have a mint later British Stanley No7 already. One has to go, just difficult which to choose. :-k

 

[jimi43]

Hi DM. I had EXACTLY the same quandry with my No.5 1/2s and I have three No.4s to sort out yet....I find that the problem is, they all have certain "best bits" and if I could hybridise them...I would have the ultimate example.

Jim

 

[Vann]

Hi Dangermouse,

Nice job.

...As to the paint on the base, I have a 4 and a 5 1/2 that has paint on the top of the sides and the back / front edges, then a 5 and a 4 1/2 that have none on those places. both pairs original condition. So I think both is correct, depends on how the painter felt on the day maybe. :lol:

According to David Lynch http://www.recordhandplanes.com "The curved top edge of the sides and the curved toe and heel of the body casting had a ground finish until about 1955 to 1960. They were subsequently left as cast and enamelled blue. " and as yours is from the war years the polished edges would be more appropriate.

That was the colour paint that matched the bs110 Roundel Blue, but as you say I have seen old planes prewar that were darker blue. But only thing I imagine is that after 60 odd years the paint takes in dirt and oil and darkens with time. :

That's certainly the colour David Lynch has come up with, yet when I remove the frogs from my old Records, the orginal paint is much darker. Under the frogs, the paint will not have been affected by sun, wear or tear, and probably will have had very little oil etc seap in - leaving only age to affect the colour. I'm left wondering if todays "roundel blue" is the same tone as it was pre-1960. I have a 1990s Record-Marples SP4 which has a lighter blue finish similar to your No.06 warfinish.

Yours is still very nice though. So how does it shave?

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Dangermouse]

Hi Vann
Yeah I think you are correct about the paint colour. but it looks ok and i'm not going to repaint it. Probably will darken the paint for the next one. I did a bit of fettling on the plane and she shaves thin enough to see through and thick enough to take off wood in quick time, so a very nice usable plane. Must admit I'm begining to prefer Records over most Stanleys now, as i think they were a lot better made. Not talking about the newer ones of course.

 

[jimi43]

Generally speaking...the RECORDs that I have outperform the STANLEYs with one exception...my No.5 1/2

I don't know if I got a Monday one but it seems to just be part of my arm now...and that is rare in a tool...

One thing I have learned is to get as many as I can find of the older variety and then work on them to see which one performs best and settle on that one. It may not be a reflection of the condition. I had a real soul searching battle with the workshop clearout recently....comparing the one above with the one I eventually sold...

This has a new home now...and by all accounts, a very satified new owner. As you can see...the repaint on that matches your "Roundel Blue"....so it is not a case of error in the mixing. I just think that the new concept of Roundel Blue...if it is what Record use...is not the same colour as they used back in the day!

Anyone buying a new "Stanley" would be put off these planes but anyone who gets their hands on a good old one soon changes that opinion.

Jim

 

[Mike Wingate]

All my Stanley and Record bench planes are pre 70's. Apart from the plastic handles and a bit of lapping, what is percieved as poor with the more recent offerings.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Hi DM. I had EXACTLY the same quandry with my No.5 1/2s and I have three No.4s to sort out yet....I find that the problem is, they all have certain "best bits" and if I could hybridise them...I would have the ultimate example.

Jim

Just a note on accuracy:

I am the purchaser of that one of Jimi's 5 1/2s. It's truly gorgeous.

If it's what he considers NOT to be an ultimate example, I'm speechless.

Meanwhile I'll just enjoy being dead chuffed...


By the way, I've got a war finish #4 I keep looking at and wondering about. The 'roundel blue' is dark, like the one Jimi showed, and it's got beech handles, not rosewood (I think). I'm not sure, my wife's grandfather identified all his tools with bright green paint(!), in this case on the handles (sigh!). Where the green has chipped, roundel blue is evident, so it looks like the handles were originally painted too! That might be to conceal the inferior beech (not rosewood, for shame!). It's got a big chip from the tote too, so I have yet to decide what to do with it.

I think the brighter roundel blue is wrongly described, or that there should be two blues thus named. I used to make Airfix models as a child, and trips to Aero museums were a treat too, and whenever I've seen war-era models or the real thing, the roundels' blue has been the darker colour (the wartime roundel was just thick blue and red, without the white ring of peacetime). I'm not convinced the (woodworking) planes' colour did darken over time. In any case, lead-paint blue is one of the more stable pigments and would have lightened if at all (in sunlight). some reaction with the iron in the plane's steel is possible I suppose...

When I've got a moment I'll take some pics of the #4 before and after.

Jimi: I'm still hugely chuffed with "that" #5 1/2, and will be for some considerable time, I think!
If you've got any more 'inferior' planes you want rid of... :wink:

Cheers,

E.

 

[jimi43]

HA! Eric...it is nice to hear that you are chuffed...as I say...it was a bit of a juggle as to which one had to go but in the end the Stanley won to be kept....mostly out of pure sentiment...it would have been like getting rid of an old faithful dog in preference for a pedigree puppy...I just couldn't do it!

The loss is vastly outweighed however, by your pleasure in using the runner up for many years to come...how does she shave....have you had time to get out into the workshop yet?

Jim

 

[Eric The Viking]

I forgot to say: Jimi's #5 1/2 will essentially replace my modern Stanley #5. That I have fettled a bit: flattening the sole, truing the chip-breaker and getting the frog bed reasonably true and smooth. It does cut really well, even with the bog-standard Stanley iron.

The only drawback is the plastic handles. They really aren't nice, and used to raise blisters years ago (before I learned how to sharpen!). Most annoyingly, I've never managed to keep them clean - any solvent seems to attack the surface of the material. The only other trivial issues are the amount of slop in the adjuster (you get used to it), and the fact that the disc isn't riveted onto the lateral adjuster lever symmetrically. Again you get used to this, and neither is a nuisance in use.

Still, in terms of "does it work well?", the answer is definitely "yes". I've always managed transparent shavings with it, but more importantly, I can usually get a mirror finish on hardwood (with a Japanese laminated iron), and it gets things flat and true with minimum effort - that's all I can ask!

I think for someone starting up on a tight budget, these later planes (mine was bought new around 1980) are probably good value, as they don't fetch much on eBay, and can be brought up to a pretty good standard with some elbow grease. Yes, you have to live with the obvious imperfections (most notably the handles), but they work.

Just my twopence.

E.

 

[Benchwayze]

I prefer restoring the Stanley planes because they are... well... just black!
No machinations, confuzzlement or shades to worry about. Just black! :wink:

That is a lovely job that is. I wonder if my war-finish no 5 will finish as well!

Regards
John 8)

 

[Vann]

I prefer restoring the Stanley planes because they are... well... just black!
No machinations, confuzzlement or shades to worry about. Just black!

Is that gloss black, matt black or satin black John? :lol: :lol:

Cheers, Vann.

 

[jimi43]

I prefer restoring the Stanley planes because they are... well... just black!
No machinations, confuzzlement or shades to worry about. Just black!

Is that gloss black, matt black or satin black John? :lol: :lol:

Cheers, Vann.

I was going to say exactly the same thing Vann...then things around the house took over and I forgot to post!

My journey into the matching of "Stanley Black" Japanning has led me to conclude that it isn't quite as simple as it first appears.

The closest I have is the cold Japanning mix of asphaltum and yacht varnish...which gives a beautiful "oily black" appearance...when you catch the light on it you get that oil slick appearance of many colours of the rainbow.

It is probably easier to try to match Roundel Blue than it is the authentic black finish of old Stanleys

Jim

 

[Benchwayze]

I prefer restoring the Stanley planes because they are... well... just black!
No machinations, confuzzlement or shades to worry about. Just black!

Is that gloss black, matt black or satin black John? :lol: :lol:

Cheers, Vann.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Vann, Jim,


The last one I did had been chrome-plated by a previous owner. I got it all off then cheated and had it powder coated.. ! 8)

Nahhh! I used the old car enamel 'Tekaloid'...
It did a grand job after two coats of varnish as well.

I still have a litre of each somewhere!