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Wadkin Hounds: I need your help to find this old girl.

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IronMonger

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Hello... I am new to this site and its pretty cool. I am sitting in the middle of the US and my toaster is talking you you guys in england. How Cool!

At any rate, I love to collect and fixup old woodworking machines as well as use them. I dont really like the new stuff.

So I need your help to find this old girl or one of her sisters. The saw I am looking for is a Wadkin PK. As long as its stock and complete and no major castings cracked, it may be a goer. One with cracked castings may also be useful as it can source spares.

But my interest is in this saw. Look at the picture. The skuttle butt says that this wadkin PK is currently located somewhere in the UK and is currently up for sale. Have any of you english gents actually come accross this old girl in your travels to the tool dealers?



I have done some preliminary google searches but have not yet found this saw. Other PKs are also welcome as I plan on doing a ground up full bore restoration anyway. For example, I did find this one but I have yet to hear back on its details. Are there any of these in england with that unsual table extension scheme? Was this done by wadkin?



Please PM me or send me email at emchd@qwest.net if any of you guys have any leads.

Kindest Regards
IronMonger
Dev Emch
emchd@qwest.net[/img]
 

Jake

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I'm guessing that Scrit will be the man you need on this one...
 

orangetlh

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hi iron monger. This is one of the largest companies in the UK for used machinery,

www.scosarg.co.uk

if you look onthis page,


you will find a wadkin PK for sale but with no pics.

modedit, I have adjusted the link to reduce the side ways scrolling need to read the post. DaveL
 

IronMonger

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Yes, I have also emailed Scott Sargent regarding this one. It was sold. But I had not seen the photos until now and was even taken more aback by the fact that it sold on ebay. Lastly, it turns out to be a PK with the optional outrigger table. Just too cool. What can I say.... I love norris hand planes and wadkin PK table saws. Yum Yum

So the quest or hunt for the elusive PK continues. Part of the fun is actually finding the item your after.
 

Scrit

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IronMonger":fdisdfey said:
So I need your help to find this old girl or one of her sisters. The saw I am looking for is a Wadkin PK. As long as its stock and complete and no major castings cracked, it may be a goer. One with cracked castings may also be useful as it can source spares.
Hi Dev

As I said elsewhere, they are available here in the UK and after being asked recently I now know where there are four or five of them (including that complete, working one with one welded casting I offered you for a fairly low price). What you need to do is give some indication of the quality requirement - do you want a user or a minter? Also the price range you're in. These machines are sufficiently complicated that I wouldn't buy one sight unseen (for example the rip fence tilts and runs on bearings). Personally I tend to keep away from Scosarg on this sort of stuff as I find they are a bit expensive, in any case JJ Smith or Electromotion are probably the biggest on the s/hand side of things (at least since Colin Greenwood retired last year). I'd point out that these machines were patternmaker's machines and so aren't going to be all that common in joiners shops. Forget about converting these to single phase guys, they are 4HP which means about 20Amp start load and a 20A contactor set (expensive). They were manufactured from the early to mid 1930s to the early 1960s when replaced by the PP:



Above from Wadkin's 1936 catalogue. Can't see why your interested in our stuff when there are some superb American saws of the same vintage and quality in the USA, like:



Above: Oliver No.232-D tilt-arbor variety saw and
Below: Oliver No.260 Double Arbor Universal Tilting Saw Bench



(both images from Oliver's 1957 catalogue)> Personally I'm on the lookout for a Robinson ET/E saw like this one:



Scrit
 

IronMonger

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Thanks Phil...

Email me or PM me about the various PKs you have identified. I am still trying to figure out the various details on this saw. I did not know they even come with some form of outrigger until I found a photo of it.

Why the PK? No other reason then I like its shape and design. The closest US version to the PK would actually be the tannewitz model J. But they are extremely rare when you hunt one with a sliding table. Furthermore, I really do like how wadkin engineered the gearing on the PK. The patternwork is first rate and the sliding table is a simple yet solid design. Lastly, I love the wooden lips that wadkin put on the PK.

I used to own both a northfield #4 and northfield #4 slider. (See www.northfieldwoodworking.com for more information) As you can see, the northfield is no wuss of a saw! It weighs about 2000 pounds, is solid cast iron to the floor and the weakest motor available is a 5 HP three phase. Two things about this saw did not sit well. First, the bearings for the table are scattered about on the undercarriage. Even after a couple of hours of minute adjustments on the bearing eccentrics, you still had a hard time getting that table to ride flat. This creates a bumpy ride. Second, unless you have a dust collector that can suck chrome off a chevy bumper, this saw has a habbit of throwing swarf up through the crack between the slider and the main table. Right into your face. With DC on, no worries. With DC off, your getting stuff thrown in your face.

The olivers you posted are good saws. But the 232 is the smallest of the lot and has only a 2 to 3 HP motor depending on options. Second, the 232 does not have a sliding table and I have never seen one with it. I know several folks who own 232s and my buddy owns the big brother or 270 which is based on the 232 base with a 5 HP motor and larger table.

The 260 is just strange. It has two 5 HP motors hung on a turret. As you crank the turret about, one motor is comming up while the other is going down. This has the effect of placing the blade either at the front of the saw or the back of the saw. When the blade is fully extended, it will be in the middle of the saw. The motor on top connects to the electrics with slip rings. As one motor goes down, it disconnects from the slip rings and the motor that is comming up connects with the slip rings. Thus you have only one set of electrics to control either motor depending on which motor is being used. The reason for this was to put a rip blade on one arbor and a cross cut blade on the other. With a dado blade arbor, you cannot close the flask.

Personally, I find the oliver model 88 to be superior to the oliver 260. The 88 came in many different forms beginning with the 88-D. Then you get a sliding table and some other aerospace features which gives you the model 88-DM. Here you have a crank on the left to move the sliding table left by 4 inches to install a dado blade and to do work on the blade arbor. The rolling table is very simple in design but rolls very smoothy. Then you have the monster 88s. The oliver 88-DX and 88-DY both had sliding tables that weigh close to 1000 pounds each supported by ball bearing rollers riding cinched tracks in an undercarriaige that bolted to the left side of the 88 body. This saw can straight line rip a 4x8 sheet of plywood like notbody's business. In fact, I can stack plywood up to 4.5 inches deep and precision cut multiple sheets in one pass. In twenty some odd years I have only seen two of these monsters.

I personally own an honest to god oliver 88-DM. Not only is mine an actual 88-DM but I got it from a surplus auction sale by Douglas Aviation who is the namesake of the DM in the model name.

This saw has a rolling top with the cranked leadscrew on the left to move the sliding table left and right. The motor is direct drive and is a 7.5 horsepower three phase Louis Allis. It can slice through 4 inches of Oak like a delta unisaw slices through 1/4 inch plywood. Should you get a kick back with this saw, the resulting projectile may terminate any further hopes of increasing the size of your family!

I really find this saw much to large for my needs and I would like to downsize to a more simple saw and a smaller saw. Personally, I like the wadkin PK. Its super cute and just the right size for my home workshop. But wadkin did not sell many PKs in the US and the ones that made it there are coveted by those who have them. They are very unusual and very much liked. So they are rare and tend to be expense for what they are.

Lastly, I spend my free time restoring old woodworking machines. I have reached a point in terms of space and time where I wish to concentrate on certain machines. The PK is one of these collectable machines.
 

Scrit

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Hi Dev

Pity your second photograph is of the PK currently being offered in New Zealand. Would it cost more to ship from there?

Scrit
 

IronMonger

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Shipping is a confusing business and I dont want to spoil my secrets. But isnt china and hong kong getting pretty near new zealand? Hmmm, wal-mart (also known as wally world) seems to know the tricks too. :p

By the way, any word on that part's machine? That is one avenue I can go down too. By the way, what voltage do you guys use on the 4 ponie motor that comes with these?
 
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