Wadkin BGS10…The rarest table saw Wadkin made. Full Restoration

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

T.H.

Member
Joined
20 Oct 2021
Messages
16
Reaction score
6
Location
Jersey UK & Poland
Nice work 👍 ! Great to see older cast-iron machines like this Wadkin restored. They really are quality engineering. I’m discovering this with my recently purchased Dominion DAA which is undergoing a bit of TLC.
 

deema

Established Member
Joined
14 Oct 2011
Messages
3,017
Reaction score
658
Location
chester
Nice bag, I think the dominion DAA is an absolutely fantastic PT. The tables are on pins and need lifting vertically off carefully to avoid damaging the cast iron pockets. A number I’ve seen have the pockets damaged due to people not realising. The pins are shown on the photo below
52376BFD-E8A0-4DE2-9CBC-53E927FF5F58.jpeg

Edit, I’m now wondering if the photo is of the pins! There are two studs for sliding the fixed table back away from the blade and two hidden pins. Anyway, just beware.
 
Last edited:

T.H.

Member
Joined
20 Oct 2021
Messages
16
Reaction score
6
Location
Jersey UK & Poland
Nice bag, I think the dominion DAA is an absolutely fantastic PT. The tables are on pins and need lifting vertically off carefully to avoid damaging the cast iron pockets. A number I’ve seen have the pockets damaged due to people not realising. The pins are shown on the photo below
View attachment 124497
Hi Deema. Yes, I knew about the locating pins thankfully. The tables are off at the moment but due back on later today actually. You’re obviously ‘in the know’ about these machines. Would the two shafts in the gearbox for the Brammer belt & drive-chain pulleys have oil seals? Refilled the box up to shaft level yesterday & getting a slight oil leak. I’ll post some pics later. Thanks
 

deema

Established Member
Joined
14 Oct 2011
Messages
3,017
Reaction score
658
Location
chester
No probs, probably best to create a new thread so that everyone with one can pitch in too
 

deema

Established Member
Joined
14 Oct 2011
Messages
3,017
Reaction score
658
Location
chester
A little bit of progress on the fixed 90 degree fence, Xmad is now causing distractions!

There are two sets of bolt down and alignment pin holes for the fence, one of which provides the maximum cut stoke length of the sliding table, and the other the maximum stoke length for full depth of cut. in each position the fence has two bolts and two pins to locate it, the pins providing absolute accuracy for fence position enabling it to be removed and put back on with no setup. The new fence needs to be extremely accurate if the pins are to be a slide fit into the table holes and for the slot and fence to be perpendicular to each other, if they arnt the table would need to be calibrated for one or the other which would be a real pain for the end user.

The pins required are 1/4” diameter, which are a good slide fit into the table. We chose to use silver steel for the pins which comes ground and highly accurate.

To measure the pin centres we used slip gauge blocks, these are highly accurate precision ground blocks of a given length that you ‘ring’ together and build up a given length.
27F64C74-CC48-4061-BD59-D07DB811B297.jpeg

Placing two pins in the holes we were able to accurately measure the centres. The positi on shown is exactly on 9” between centres, the other position is not, it is a fraction narrower. That’s a bit of problem to resolve!

The fixed part of the fence is made from stainless steel. We think it may be in a damp environment (garage / shed) so, anything that helps prevent corrosion can only benefit who ever ends up buying it. Standard angle section, is never precisely 90 degrees, so the fence side has been milled to be exactly 90 degrees.

We thought the best way to drill the fence for the pins was to use the gauge blocks to setup the distance between them. Using only measurement tool always produces the most accurate results.

32DC32BF-7775-4CE5-888D-C0E442C86E32.jpeg

A reference block was set against the first pin which was popped into the first hole that was precisely drilled, the clock set to zero against this reference block. The stack of slip blocks added and the mill table brought back so that the clock read zero again. The reference block allowed the clock to be set in a flat surface rather than on the round of the pin.

The interesting bit is when we checked that all the drilled holes aligned to the bolt holes and the pin holes in the table, which they did. The fence is a snug fit into the reference pin holes in the rear position, which it was setup and drilled for, but won’t fit onto the forward position pin holes! They are slightly narrower. The fence is also perfectly aligned to the slot in the table, ie 90 degrees to it.
AAD0061C-50C4-4F6C-8114-713AB25A85C7.jpeg


When the holes in the table were drilled by Wadkin, one set they got wrong and it probably wasn’t checked, either that or the pins were not a good fit. So we have we think two options, file a slight flat on the inside of one of the pins, this won’t affect the alignment of the fence as the pins will be fixed solidly into the fence and the ‘slop’ isnt in the plain that affects the fence alignment. Alternatively to ease one of the holes in the table. This isn’t easy, it can’t be drilled or reamed we don’t think to elongate the hole, it would need to be very carefully filed.
we also found that the bolt holes in this forward position are also not on the same centre line as the pins, which they are for the rear mounting position. This will need the bolt holes in the fence slightly opening up. Would welcome any alternative suggestions?
 

Inspector

Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck!
Joined
18 Jun 2006
Messages
3,161
Reaction score
1,221
Location
Saskatoon, SK., Canada
Would making a second fence be a dumb idea? One for each position. Lots more work but then you can make them as close to perfect as you can.

Pete
 

deema

Established Member
Joined
14 Oct 2011
Messages
3,017
Reaction score
658
Location
chester
Would making a second fence be a dumb idea? One for each position. Lots more work but then you can make them as close to perfect as you can.

Pete
No such thing as a dumb idea😃 the only danger I can think of is that the user may try to fit the wrong fence and crack / chip the table around the pin holes. You can see some chipping around the forward bolt holes where I’m guessing the original fence was attempted to be fitted……i
 
Last edited:

Inspector

Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck!
Joined
18 Jun 2006
Messages
3,161
Reaction score
1,221
Location
Saskatoon, SK., Canada
Yup you can never underestimate the stupidity of the future user. Well you are down to drilling out the hole in the table and putting in a freeze plug or other method to hold it and re-drilling. For what it is worth I've seen CNC operators mess up holes on parts and all they needed to do was make sure the tools were sharp and in the right magazine locations so Wadkin getting one out of tolerance isn't a real surprise.

Pete
 

deema

Established Member
Joined
14 Oct 2011
Messages
3,017
Reaction score
658
Location
chester
Today was my first adventure back into the workshop this year.
The problem with the secondary mounting position for the fence in the end was an easy fix. I decided to use a carbide end mill to rebore all four pin holes to just under 7mm which allowed me to reposition the offending pin hole without drill drift. One done it was just a matter of reaming them to precisely 7mm. I bought a length of 7mm silver steel and turned down shoulders on two new pins so that the 7mm pins fit into the 1/4” holes in the fence. I will probably silver solder them into place.

The sliding table was stripped out of the saw, mounted on the mill and aligned with the mitre groove so that everything would be aligned. The secondary pin holes were not in align with the bolt down threaded holes, and I was able to move them closer to alignment, but not fully, as I had around 0.3mm of possible adjustment around the centre of the existing holes.

Milling the 4 holes
64BE9D25-DF9F-439D-A13E-413D50EFD9A6.jpeg

Reaming each hole.

FE62252E-68AA-4502-B965-A67FE713A810.jpeg

Fence now fits correctly in both positions on the pins.
30C923C5-DC92-4BFF-A020-FBF10EB0162E.jpeg
 

wallace

Established Member
Joined
13 Feb 2011
Messages
2,117
Reaction score
227
Location
county durham
I must say the quality of finishing exceeds that of wadkin themselves, I think you would of had a job for life back in the day.
 

Jitter

Established Member
Joined
21 Jul 2019
Messages
80
Reaction score
16
Location
West Calder
I thoroughly enjoyed reading through all of this thread. What great work you guys do and very interesting, your engineering skills and knowledge are obviously greatly needed to do a job like this properly. I have an old Wadkin Bursgreen UOS 18” PT, works really well although I think the feeder rollers are a bit worn because they slip often and mark the wood. Something I’d like to sort on the machine at some point although not sure what is involved at all.
 

stidy

Member
Joined
16 Mar 2019
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Location
london/cardiff
Great! Look forward to this Deema. Here's my register of extant BGS10's
Was the no. 5 "Ebay cracked tub" listed somewhere in the Cambridgeshire fens do you know? I bought mine from a scientologist out there, someone had welded the tub, quite well, and it all works very nicely, Mine is No.8 Stidy ( John Stidworthy) I wonder if they are the same one. Will sort out some photos.
Great! Look forward to this Deema. Here's my register of extant BGS10's
 

stidy

Member
Joined
16 Mar 2019
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Location
london/cardiff
Great! Look forward to this Deema. Here's my register of extant BGS10's
Mine, no. 8 on your list, is serial number BGS61232. It has a welded repaired tub, so might have been the saw formally known as no.5 eBay cracked tub. I also have friends in common with sion dovey in pembrokshire, that's another story....
 

MilesH

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2017
Messages
180
Reaction score
18
Location
London
Hello John,

Sorry to miss your post in Jan. I stopped getting notifications, for some reason. Thanks for your serial number. It does sound like yours is the same as No. 5 Here are the pictures that I saved from eBay of No. 5

Cracked BGS 1.jpg
Cracked BGS 2.jpg
Cracked BGS 3.jpg
Cracked BGS 4.jpg
Cracked BGS 5.jpg
Cracked BGS 6.jpg
 

rjsww

Member
Joined
9 Jan 2016
Messages
6
Reaction score
1
Location
Basingstoke
A little progress made today before a new addition to the family, my second grand daughter decided to make an entrance to the world. Sideways has bit family stuff for the next week so progress will be slow for a while.

Saw Spindle.
This is probably the trickiest bit to assemble. I’ve certainly got it wrong on more than one occasion. Schematics below show how they go together. The first is an exploded diagram. Item 8 sits inside item 7. It is a locking collar that is pulled against item 7 by a bolt and stops the entire assembly moving inside the casting. You need to move the entire saw spindle in and out of the casting a little bit to align the saw blade with the riving knife. Getting this back together is the tricky bit!


View attachment 118502

The original bearings which I can only find exact replacements for on the continent at exorbitant prices I replace with SKF or similar 6203 bearings and a couple of shim washers to make up for the protruding inner race. Shim washers are precision shims in the shape of a washer. The only reason for the spacing is to ensure the bearing remains inside the casting when the spindle is moved to its furthest forward position. The original bearings had this ‘packing’ built in. The bearings are identical in specification / performance otherwise.
View attachment 118501

Hi Deema

Im currently working on my newly acquired AGS10 and I’ve found this thread to be extremely helpful! I have a few different questions to ask but wondered if there is a better place to ask them?

thanks for all your help so far, even though you didn’t know it!

Ryan
 

deema

Established Member
Joined
14 Oct 2011
Messages
3,017
Reaction score
658
Location
chester
@rjsww If you start a new thread about your AGS10, everyone I’m sure will help with any queries you have including Sideways and I. Good luck with the project.
 
Top