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VFD help please [Solved]

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KingAether

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As per the title, ive been having some issues with an invertek vfd and wondered if anyone might have seen something similar; im hoping its the just speed pot but a little worried the motor is dying and currently a friend is borrowing my multimeter. I brought the lathe 2 weeks ago now and haven't had a chance to "play"!... The wiring and parameters are all right for the motor but it just doesn't want to turn, it seems its only getting 0.01hp worth of power.
On/off, forward/rev, jog and the emergency stop all work but the pot doesnt seem to on the external controls. The speed buttons on the vfd itself seem to do something but very little, i can half the speed and bring it back up to the slow running speed but nothing else
Feeling a bit gutted about it at the mo and hoping i wont have to buy a new motor on top of the rest..

 

Ttrees

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Internet very bad at the moment, cant watch your video.
Surely if the motor was faulty it would give you an error code.
Taking it that you have the motor terminals configured to dual voltage.
If not, beware of going near terminals, as the stored power (lethal) in the capacitors will still be live for some time after unplugging.

You have done a parameter reset and started again.
Not being familiar with your vfd, but it appears that it is negative 50hz, worth looking at the many invertec videos online for clarification.
Can you select for your external switches to be disabled, does this mean the pot will be disengaged aswell?

Might as well type in your parameters and nameplate information or picture incase you that you have some values incorrect.
Best way to get information regarding troubleshooting.
Just getting some basic stuff out of the way first, for someone who has some real questions can spend more time on the rest.

Watching with interest.
Tom
 

KingAether

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I'm not sure about it showing an error if the motor, i would assume so but definitely something wrong and no error codes at all..yet..so fingers crossed its something cheaper to deal with !
I will do a param reset in the morning and try that, i have another potentiometer on the way too to give that a try.
Params are set -
1- 50hz
2- 25hz
3- 5
4- 7.5
5- 0
6-0
7- 230v
8- 3.4a
9- 50
10-1390rpm
11- 3.0
12- 0
153775714_431132124820099_1922087785294785454_n.jpgda64a0ab4fc637fc342dc067ddb12474.png
 

Ttrees

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Hello again
I ain't no expert and often dozy at times, so take my word with a pinch of salt.
I'll leave the parameters for someone else, as I can't spot anything what immediately sticks out.

Is there a rating on your pot?
I recall another forum member having some issues with getting their invertec drive to work with some confusion regarding the pot.
On another note
I have heard of some folk needing two pots on some other brands of VFD's, (I think) but not sure if this was because the rating was incorrect.
I believe the pot needs to be rated for 10k.

Sorry I can't be of any help, but at least you stand a much better chance now, of getting a quick answer since you have given the ample information.
Good luck
Tom
 

Ttrees

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I would look into p01 and p02, it seems like that could be where the problem lies.
It seems you can change the values to hz or RPM which is rather odd.
Are you sure you have it selected to hz?
Tom
 

Fergie 307

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I would look into p01 and p02, it seems like that could be where the problem lies.
It seems you can change the values to hz or RPM which is rather odd.
Are you sure you have it selected to hz?
Tom
Can't see the parameters clearly on the video because of reflection on the screen. Looks to me like you have the Hz set incorrectly. Are you sure it's 50 and not 5.0 for example. And is the motor set to the correct configuration, ie star or delta.
 

philip sewell

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As already said this is more than likely a wrong parameter setting.

I put one of these on my lathe and needed some advice setting it up.

I rang the company I bought it off and a chap walked me through setting all the parameters and couldn’t have been more helpful.

If you are stuck give a ring, I’m sure they will sort it out for you.

Invertek Drives Ltd.
Offa’s Dyke Business Park
Welshpool
Powys
SY21 8JF
United Kingdom

Tel: +44 (0) 1938 55 68 68
Fax: +44 (0) 1938 55 68 69
Email: sales@invertekdrives.com
 

Doug B

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Had a similar problem back in December turned out to be the potentiometer was faulty.
 

KingAether

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Thanks for all the advice everyone
The HZ are set to 50.. The settings shown are the non-adjustable params when its moving and just show the power/speed etc the motor is moving at.
1 + 2 are set to HZ value as long as 10 is set to the RPM value;1390.The pot is the right size, i had a look at replacing it yesterday but only had 20k-250k pots in stock but have a friend coming over shortly with a new 10k pot and multimeter so ill hopefully get it sorted
If that doesn't work ill give them a call.
 

leisurefix

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Are you sure that the pot is wired up correctly, sounds a bit like the COM and 5V are wired the wrong way, at least i think it was those two when I had a similar problem.
 

KingAether

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Are you sure that the pot is wired up correctly, sounds a bit like the COM and 5V are wired the wrong way, at least i think it was those two when I had a similar problem.
Ill take a look in the next few hours, im pretty sure its the right way but could be, thank you.. Im fairy hopeful its the pot after the number of replies here saying it was the pot causing there similar issue and it is what i suspected... or maybe hoped, but ill know soon
 

Paul Hannaby

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You can eliminate the pot as the cause by looping the 5V with the speed in contact. The motor should run at full speed if everything else is correct.
 

Sideways

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I have several invertek drives. A few points :
5k or 10k pot is fine. Anything in that range will work.
As there are some differences between them, it will help us to know if this is an ODE2 or newer ODE3 series drive.

50Hz x (60 sec/min) = 3000rpm
You have a 4 pole motor so your max speed / frequency should be set to 25Hz aka 1500rpm
(or to exactly match your motor rating plate 23Hz / 1390 rpm).

I suspect your programming is wrong because of confusion over speeds in rpm and speeds in Hz.

Normally programming the ODE drives, I just start at parameter 1 and set them one at a time in order.
Once you get to p10, IF you enter a max speed in rpm instead of leaving it at zero (the default), all the other speed settings immediately change from Hz to rpm.
You need to go back to p1 and ensure that it has updated from 23 (Hz) to 1380 (rpm). You can then tweak p1 to 1390 if you want to get it exactly right. It's not very important.

The essential numbers to enter correctly are the motor rated voltage, the full load current and the max speed. If you do a reset on the drive first, most others can safely be left at factory default. P12 and p15 though are really important - see further down below.

If you want to set a minimum speed, choose one that is not too low, the motor is running at only a fraction of it's power at very low speeds so I'd choose one or two hundred rpm (300 rpm = 5Hz) and avoid running it all the way down to zero.

Study the manual. There are many different wiring diagram options for the controls. This is a strength of any high spec VFD like the inverteks but is makes them complicated to understand the first time you work with them. Control wiring options are shown in section 7.8 on p24 (of the ODE3 manual i'm reading). Pick the diagram that matches how your controls are wired then turn back to table 7.3 on p22, match the wiring diagram number in the rightmost column and check the other columns to figure out exactly which option you have. It depends whether you are using pushbutton or switches, have a reverse, etc etc
When you have matched the diagram and the switches, the first column of table 7.3 will tell you what value to enter in parameter 15. It is essential that this correctly identifies your control wiring scheme so the drive knows how to interpret the signals applied to the control wiring terminals.

If you have a pot connected, you will be running the drive in "terminal mode". This is selected by setting p12 to 0
In terminal mode, the drive is started, stopped etc from buttons, switches etc connected to the upper row of small control wiring terminals. Your drive is not weather sealed or dust proof. It is expected that the drive is installed in an enclosure for protection (ventilated or large enough for air circulation) and controlled from remote switches, it would not normally be run from the buttons on the front of the drive as these would be inaccessible inside an enclosure. They are used when programming the drive then left alone.

If you need to prove the drive with no external controls attached, you can set p12 to 1 or 2 and start / stop the drive from it's own buttons, but you need to connect a simple wire link from control terminal 5 to terminal 6. This is equivalent to connecting a pot turned to full speed. The motor won't spin without this link in place when p12 = 1 or 2.

This saga above is absolutely typical of a good VFD. If you want to work with / modify / fault find these things, you have to study the manual and understand it.
There are 28 pages in the invertek manual. There were 70 odd for an Omron Yaskawa drive I setup 10 days ago.
Some cheap chinese drives give you a page if you are lucky. That doesn't mean they are better.
Good luck :)
 

KingAether

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Thank you very much for the write up, much more than i expected i really appreciate it. Ill take another look at the manual tomorrow and make sure i have it right as i was getting quite overwhelmed going through the wiring options but i probably should just put more time into it as i have 3 of them in the workshop now.
The pot on there is 10k and i have another 10k here now to put on in the morning along with a multimeter to give everything a look over.

P12 is set to 0 currently but when i set it to 1 or 2, it can see a change in speed using the controls on the vfd face but the range is as seen in the video to half that and back so virtually no change. Will the rainbow cable along the terminals be that connection from 5-6 ? Or do i need another between the two aswell ? If that doesn't make sense ill get a picture tomorrow.

50Hz x (60 sec/min) = 3000rpm
You have a 4 pole motor so your max speed / frequency should be set to 25Hz aka 1500rpm
(or to exactly match your motor rating plate 23Hz / 1390 rpm).

I suspect your programming is wrong because of confusion over speeds in rpm and speeds in Hz.
This is the one bit im a little confused by as 50hz/1390rpm is to exactly match the data plate but could well be something i have mixed up if speed in hz is different to speed in rpm. Though the manual says if you enter the motors dataplate stated RPM for P10 then enter the stated hz in P1. Should i have halfed the Hz due to having it wired for 230, not 400? I though 50hz was just standard for UK but honestly, i try and avoid electrical work as best i can so 🤷‍♂️
 

Sideways

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P1 isn't 50Hz as in the frequency of the mains. It's the maximum speed of the motor, expressed in Hz by default.
As soon as you enter the corresponding maximum speed expressed in rpm into p10, then the units of p1 change and it becomes expressed in rpm in p1 also. Changing p10 changes p1 so you have to go back and check that it's correct.
I think you will find you have actually limited the max motor speed to 25rpm thinking it's 25Hz.

If you have a pot correctly wired to control pins 5, 6 and 7 you don't need a shorting link between 5 and 6 as well.
 

KingAether

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@Sideways Absolute star, you got it spot on; i had max speed set to 50rpm 😂
Somehow every time i read it, i read "if 10=0" but its "if 10>0"...
Its working just fine now! That said the pot does need replacing as it still does nothing but thats easy enough
thank you ever so much again
 

Sideways

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Way to go :)
Thanks for letting us know it worked.
Let me give you a pointer too:
On ebay etc, Vishay / Sfernice make a tiny little potentiometer with the knob made as part of the unit. Tiny, dust sealed and high quality. These are v small but work a treat with VFD controls. Pick a 10 or 5k - either is good. Prices around £12
20210219_120355.jpg
20210219_120351.jpg

I usually solder them onto flexible wire about 0.5mm or 0.75mm2, use heatshrink to protect and bind all 3 wires together to reduce the chance of a pull on one wire twisting a solder lug, then use wago connectors to join these to a length of multicore (cy) cable from the drive.
Using wagos between all the controls and the multicore makes it super easy to install in the first place, to change if you wire anything wrong and to swap out a switch etc if they ever wear out.
 

KingAether

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No thank you and everyone else for the help!
ill check them out as i do definitely want to build a new "pendant" being that i can't afford £100 for one off the shelf. I have a pot that sounds very similar but its 20k and looks like i would probably ruin it trying to open it and replace the chip for a 10k so i wont be doing that!
Im thinking ill make a small metal box for the VFD to put it inside the main body; any idea if the inverteks have an extra molex terminal? Would be great if i can put a pc fan and filter in it for a intake.. I know i can put another 10/20v in the terminals but i'd like to use that for one of the cheap chinese LED tachometer readout
 

NetBlindPaul

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No thank you and everyone else for the help!
ill check them out as i do definitely want to build a new "pendant" being that i can't afford £100 for one off the shelf. I have a pot that sounds very similar but its 20k and looks like i would probably ruin it trying to open it and replace the chip for a 10k so i wont be doing that!
Im thinking ill make a small metal box for the VFD to put it inside the main body; any idea if the inverteks have an extra molex terminal? Would be great if i can put a pc fan and filter in it for a intake.. I know i can put another 10/20v in the terminals but i'd like to use that for one of the cheap chinese LED tachometer readout
I did say in post #9 😁
I have done a few designs and retrofits of machinery for customers using Ivertrek drives over the years, and I am an ex-drives OEM engineer. 🤪
Please be careful with equipment that comes from Amazon and eBay, Wish etc. because some of it is not compliant with the requirements for supply into the UK and EU.
The supplying website will deny responsibility for it and you can find yourself in the position of being the legal manufacturer of the equipment in the country of use.
If it’s not compliant then you might find that in the event of a claim that you are uninsured.
 
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