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veritas honing guide sucks

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tombo

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Not knowing any better I have been struggling to get my chisels set in the guide perfectly straight, I thought that there was little i could do other than use a square to set it up. However i just got the DC disk number one on plane sharpening, he uses and eclipse guide and that looks so much better as it clamps from both sides so its inherently straight. Are there any tricks to using the veritas guide or should i binn it and get myself an eclipse one?

tom
 
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Anonymous

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hmm, I generally just butt the iron or chisel against the left hand edge - seems to work for me, for square honing anyway.

You could always make some jigs to go with it - I've considered them for skew irons, and for narrower chisels.

I'm sure Rob will be along to answer such a post title!

As far as I'm aware, there's no such thing as the perfect honing guide (other than experience!) - I understand the eclipse suffers from having a narrow roller, so you're prone to rocking while honing, which isn't a good thing. (don't have an eclipse, so could be wrong here). It strikes me that the market is open for an improved guide, but you'll never be able to please everyone.
 

mudman

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I've got the Veritas and I didn't like it at first. Found you couldn't keep the chisel or plane blade straight. However, what I think now is that I was screwing the clamping screw down to hard. Combined with the little rubber bit (which handily hides the guidelines :? ), you don't need too much force to hold it firmly. I generally tighten a bit, square it up with an engineer's square and then nip it up and then re-check. Seems to work okay for me now.
I do also have the Eclipse and the Axminster deluxe guide and I like all of them. For a while I went to using the Axminster with the Veritas angle finder but seem to have gone back to the Veritas one again.
 

Midnight

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I've been using mine for both chisel and plane blades without cause for complain for over 3 years... the only need I have for my eclipse guide is to hold my 112 blade cos it winna fit in the veritas...
 

Alf

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Espedair Street":1y0nk854 said:
As far as I'm aware, there's no such thing as the perfect honing guide
Too true. Generally you need at least two of them, to cover all the various blades satisfactorily. BB's your man on honing guides; he has virtually one of every model ever made as far as I can tell. :roll:

Some ideas on making setting the blade straight easier here. Also, at some point, an improved guide is due to come out I believe, which I think is supposed to solve the problem. Rob's currently away, so no swift response from him on this one. I have an Eclipse copy, and while the wheel is narrow, it has advantages when you want a cambered iron. Personally I have no trouble with it when I want a straight edge though; simply apply the pressure as close to the bevel as possible and the wheel's doing virtually nothing except keeping the angle constant. I've never used the Veritas one, but generally it seems, despite this registration issue, people do tend to like it. And not all blade sides are parallel, at which point the Eclipse will struggle.

Of course the solution to all these issues is to hone freehand... :wink:

Cheers, Alf
 

Frank D.

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Hi tom,
Don't give up on the Veritas jig, I started by using both an Eclipse and the Veritas, now I use almost exclusively the veritas. Do you have the veritas angle finder? If so, rock the blade sideways (back and forth) so it registers well (all the way in). Then you tighten the jig gradually, and just before it's tight, rock the jig a little so the wheel of the sharpening jig is well-seated on the platform of the angle finder. Then you give a final tightening to the knob on top. The key to getting a square blade is to have both the blade and the jig well-seated on the platform when you tighten the blade for the last half turn or so. I got better results without the rubber thingy on the platform of the honing guide. For narrow chisels it's a bit harder but I just take a few swipes on the first stone, look at the scratch pattern, and adjust the blade without unscrewing the jig (a little nudge and it's usually square after that). This can take a little practice but now I'm like Mike, I only use my eclipse for my scraper plane blades.
HTH,
Frank
 

Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)

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As Alf has noted, there is a new Veritas guide in the wings. It promises to be special (and it will fix the problem). In the meantime the existing model can be made to work very well. Alf posted a picture of a modification I made. This consists of an internal fence, and is great for plane blades and wider chisels, but I do end up using the jig in the link below for narrower chisels.

http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images/details.php?image_id=1228

This jig provides a side fence to set the blade square as well as a depth gauge for setting the desired angle. This one sets 25 and 30 degrees.

What is great about the Veritas guide is the in-built adjustment for a microbevel.

Frank's suggestion for using it without the rubber mat is one I endorse. I removed mine a long time ago. I also make sure the blade is really tight, even going so far as to use pliers (carefully!).

Regards from Perth

Derek
 

Martin Brown

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This is our best selling Veritas item and I really struggle to remember that it didn't do what we say it will. The posts here seem to have answered most of the issues raised but if not we would be delighted to check the jig over to check nothing is wrong.

Alf is right a new one is on the way. It will have to work hard to beat the original.

Martin

PS PM if you want us to check it.
 

tombo

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Thanks all for your interest...

Martin I'm sure it is working to spec i appreciate the offer.

It just seems daft to me when the sole purpose of this jig is super precise angles in one direction but its hit or miss in the other. Narrow chisels are the most difficult for sure.

Derek I like your jig idea I think i will have a go at making one.

Tom
 

Martin Brown

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Thanks.

Have you trimmed the rubber back a little at the edges to show enough line at both ends? This gives you a top and tail reference for straightness.

I understand about narrow chisels being the hardest, frankly just about everyone complains about how hard they are to sharpen with any system.

Martin
 

Chris Knight

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Tom,

I felt much as you do when I first got this jig. But as others have said, it really is a question of practice. As Alf indicates, it is mostly in the pressure of your fingers and that has a significant impact even with the eclipse type guide (partly because it has a narrow wheel of course).

I found I really started to like it when I thought of less as "machine" and more as a simple aid to help me keep the right honing angle - again as noted by Alf.

It also has a benefit inasmuch you can sharpen some skew blades with it that an Eclipse type jig can't handle.
 

Alf

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Martin Brown":f6t9a87x said:
I understand about narrow chisels being the hardest, frankly just about everyone complains about how hard they are to sharpen with any system.
Not so easy freehand either... As far as I'm aware the only guide that's really addressed the problem of narrow chisels is the Richard Kell one; useless for wider blades of course. ](*,)

Martin Brown":f6t9a87x said:
Alf is right a new one is on the way. It will have to work hard to beat the original.
Rob seems to get excited and mysterious in equal parts every time he mentions it. So nothing new there then... :wink:

Cheers, Alf
 

bugbear

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BB's your man on honing guides; he has virtually one of every model ever made as far as I can tell.
Still lookin' for a cheap Stanley #200...

And not all blade sides are parallel, at which point the Eclipse will struggle.
Notably, the blades in more recent Veritas tools. I think it's a cunning ploy to give the Veritas Jig "an edge" over the Eclipse.

In general you want a narrow roller for wide blades (where the blade provide it's own stability) and a wide roller for narrow blades. As soon as you have 2 surfaces trying to "register" on the stone, they must be perfectly aligned or you're in trouble.

I find it much easier to let wide blades (commonly 2" plane blades) register themselves on the stone than it is to get them into any jig perfectly.

BugBear
 

Rob Lee

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bugbear":2kf1qmws said:
(snip)

Notably, the blades in more recent Veritas tools. I think it's a cunning ploy to give the Veritas Jig "an edge" over the Eclipse.

(snip)

BugBear
Now Paul - you know we wouldn't do that on purpose... :roll: :lol:

In fact - we had to taper some blade sides so we could maximize width within the body, and still allow the blade to be skewed without contacting the sidewalls... (the skewing being necessary to compensate for out-of-square sharpening)...sort of a catch-22

At low bed angles - the skew required to compensate for an out-of-square blade is significant...

Your points about wheel widths and blade widths are good ones though - the guide is meant only to provide repeatable angles...it's a guide - not a fixture...

I've always squared by eye - as the fingertip pressure applied at the blade tip tends to ensure that existing geometry is maintained.

The new guide (we get first castings this week!) will "address" virtually all points discussed here...

It's heavier, and more complex (in design) - but is much more "fixture-like".

The challenge with any honing device design is to design one to cover a wide range of blade sizes and shapes, while not relying on the blades themselves to have any particular tolerances (parallel sides, parallel surfaces etc.). Our new one extends the envelope quite a bit - and will use only the back face (non-bevel side) and the cutting edge for registration...

Cheers -

Rob
 

Chris Knight

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Rob Lee":18q8vwy1 said:
and will use only the back face (non-bevel side) and the cutting edge for registration...
Rob,

If I have understood this properly, it's what I have been waiting for - in fact I have a half-built one I designed myself. Yours may just pip me to the post! Actually, considering my rate of progress, it is pretty well bound to :oops:
 
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tombo":2d2m5pjj said:
Not knowing any better I have been struggling to get my chisels set in the guide perfectly straight, I thought that there was little i could do other than use a square to set it up. However i just got the DC disk number one on plane sharpening, he uses and eclipse guide and that looks so much better as it clamps from both sides so its inherently straight. Are there any tricks to using the veritas guide or should i binn it and get myself an eclipse one?

tom
Tom,

One of the Richard Kell honing guides is probably the answer for you. He has 2 different honing guides for sharpening chisels. One handles chisels up to one inch; and one is for chisels over one inch.

Alf saidNot so easy freehand either... As far as I'm aware the only guide that's really addressed the problem of narrow chisels is the Richard Kell one; useless for wider blades of course I have to disagree with this. As the wider version will handle the larger chisels, and even small plane blades. In addition to this, he also does a much larger jig for handling larger plane blades and the skew plane iron from the LN 140. I suggest you take a look at his website that has links to various websites, some who have pictures of these. www.richardkell.co.uk

These are side clamping devices, so they completely eliminate the problem of skewing the blade. Also they have wide rollers which prevent rocking.

I recommend any of them wholeheartedly. The quality is incredible!

Lance
 

Alf

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Welcome to the forum, Lance.

Lance":33kjdjik said:
Alf said Not so easy freehand either... As far as I'm aware the only guide that's really addressed the problem of narrow chisels is the Richard Kell one; useless for wider blades of course I have to disagree with this.
But it is useless for wider blades; you can't physically get them into it. You need to buy additional jigs for wider blades, as you say. So I believe actually we agree, apart from maybe a willingness or not to spend money on addition honing guides... :wink:

Cheers, Alf
 

Rob Lee

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Alf":1k2qetej said:
Hmm, is Derek getting insider info? :-k Or isn't this the UK Workshop exclusive I hoped it was...? :? Anyway, I'll just go and divide this thread and give this half a better title so there's no excuse... :p

Cheers, Alf

P.S. One wouldn't presume to have connections :-#
So far - that image has only appeared twice... once here today - and once on April fools day - where it was virtually unnoticed (elsewhere)... Now that was a subtle joke... 8)

Just call me a sieve..... I leak all over... :lol: :lol:

I do send some stuff down to Derek too.... have to make sure it all works inverted :shock: :lol:

Cheers -

Rob
 
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