Veneered external doors

[mickthetree]

My brother in law has been looking for a new oak front door as his last has perished.

We were looking at prices online from some of the sheds but they all seem to be veneered??

Does anyone know what the cores are made from? How thick the veneers are? Has anyone fitted one?

I can fit it for him but not sure about making a solid oak one from scratch for the money he can get one of these veneered ones for. Or even a solid oak one online.

Made a large garden gate, but a front door might be a bit more tricky....

 

[big soft moose]

My brother in law has been looking for a new oak front door as his last has perished.

We were looking at prices online from some of the sheds but they all seem to be veneered??

Does anyone know what the cores are made from? How thick the veneers are? Has anyone fitted one?

I can fit it for him but not sure about making a solid oak one from scratch for the money he can get one of these veneered ones for. Or even a solid oak one online.

Made a large garden gate, but a front door might be a bit more tricky....

I think the cores are usually blockboard but i could be wrong about that.

With regard to making one theres not much to making a trad type - its just some edge jointed planks with ledge and brace on the back - just like a gate - the real trick is in getting it precicesly the right size.

if he wants a panneled one you might be better off getting a pro to make it for you to fit - I'm sure there are people here who could help

 

[AndyT]

Don't do it! They look horrible. Ok, they are not as nasty as UPVC but they are just wrong. The ones from B&Q have the grain pattern in the veneer showing as continuous across what's supposed to be boarding. (Sorry can't manage to link to a flash-served picture, but just go to diy.com and look for exterior doors.)

A much better option is to walk around the neighbourhood a bit, find a house with the original style of door (so you know what looks right) then head down to your local architectural salvage yard for the real McCoy.

 

[JoinerySolutions]

Sadly UPVC would last longer than the veneered efforts.
Salvage yards used to be good value, but they are now pricing higher due to the "history" applied to the goods.

Go out and price up the options, does it have to be oak(listed or conservation area) and what do you mean by perished?
What style of door is it?
The more info posted the better we are able to advise, if you want to replicate what is there, many here will help guide you.

Rob.

 

[Paul Chapman]

I wouldn't fit a veneered external door. They take quite a bashing from the weather and you want something that will take that sort of punishment. Someone asked me to fit one once - I found that the veneer had not been stuck down properly and was starting to lift even before I fitted it. I took it back and changed it for a solid wood one.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Shane]

I've had to fit a veneered external door before, same as above, bloody orrible thing

Has he mentioned a budget figure?

BSM is correct, cores are usually cheap hardwood blockboard

I'd guess veneer would be 0.6mm?

 

[mickthetree]

Thanks all for your replys.

The house is quite modern (1980s), but a few on the street have now got modern oak doors and he wants it to fit in with those. Ha just read the description on that door. They carefully use words like engineered and Solid. The man on the street isnt going to know what that means and presume its solid pieces of oak.

I'll see if I can take some photos this weekend.

The current door cant be more than 10 years old, looks like a wickes job, has a four panel affair and where the panels meet the frame they are very rotten. Its been painted but not particularly well. The door takes the full brunt when it rains.

I'm just surprised by the number of veneer doors out there. I dont recall seeing any in the sheds when we got ours 2/3 years ago. Ours is solid hardwood stable door from wickes, not sure of the species. At least I'm pretty sure ours is not veneer! Its got me wondering now :?

Our friends had some guy fit a door just like the one above. Charged them £150 and butchered it into place. I was too busy at the time. He wasnt very impressed when I said I would have done it for a beer. :lol:

You wont believe how many houses round here have the UPVC ripped out when new people move in just to be replaced with slightly newer UPVC.

I'll see if I can pop to Chiltern Timber this wknd to price up the materials. See if its cost effective.

 

[tom owens]

I fitted one a few weeks ago.

It was fine to hang. The core is supposed to be hardwood but i'v re edged one before and there was a fair bit of compressed chipboard thrown in. 0.6mm veneer with 20mm oak edging strips. Door from B&Q. The quality is rubbish tho.

 

[RogerS]

Making a door is relatively straightforward. Clearly it will depend on the style you want. This one I made to match an older existing door.

Lot of detail especially at the bottom - not essential.

Veneered doors are weaker than solid oak. A good boot and they are in. Gut feel says that they would have better insulation, than a solid oak door, from heat loss as they are hollow.

Buying a secondhand one can be luck of the draw. You might find one that is a close fit. If too large, then you need to make sure you can take enough off without weakening the door joints. You need to watch out for hidden nails etc. Sometimes they dip the doors to remove paint and then don't neutralise them properly causing the joints to fail or the door to be permanently damp as it sucks up moisture from the air.

Engineered doors have a thicker 'veneer' on some sort of substrate.

My preference is to make new but then I have the 'luxury' of a kitted out workshop. Having said that, you don't necessarily need all the machinery especially if you bought the wood from someone like British Hardwoods and made it around their standard stock sizes.

 

[big soft moose]

nother option is ebay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Solid-Oak-Front-D ... 19c019a629

 

[mickthetree]

Cheers Roger. Thats a great looking door.

As it happens I have access to a pretty good workshop now at my new job....photos to follow :wink:

Do the slopes at the bottom act as the weather strip? or did you add one to this door afterwards?

I assuem the inner stiles are MT into the top and bottom rails and the panels are solid oak? Do you rememebr the thickness of the panels?

Many thanks

Cheers for that BSM I'll keep an eye out for something local on there.

 

[RogerS]

...
Do the slopes at the bottom act as the weather strip? or did you add one to this door afterwards?

They are part of the bottom rail. The inner stiles are cut to wrap over the chamfer on the bottom rail and then MT with a central tenon into the rail. Bit of a pipper to get the slopes right. There is also the unresolved question of keeping the integrity of the joint for the panels into the bottom rail as it can end up a water-trap. As I said, I made it to match the existing door and wouldn't make it as complicated again.

Sorry, can't remember the thickness of the panels. 10mm maybe?

Here's a better picture

 

[JoinerySolutions]

And the drip groove Roger? That is a poor design detail for an exterior door.
It needs a weather board for rain deflection and to stop water tracking under the door past the water bar.

Incidentally veneered external doors are not hollow, insurance companies would never allow it in the UK, apart from the thermal barrier aspect!

Sheesh! I thought your failed 'Ethics' post would have taught you something! You are not as good as your ego dictates. Yet you continue to post as an authority, all of the deity's protect those who take your word as gospel.
I don't often post like this but I hate people getting taken for a ride, I have been working 27 years in the carpentry and joinery trade and worked hard to get where I am, I never pass on erroneous information, if I am not sure, I say so, or research before I say anything, then only if convinced.
There are many chancers out there, don't be one of them. (or a victim either)

Rob ( known on other sites, where I am able to use the name, Rob-GB)

N.B. This post is with respect to all forum members who appreciate honesty and sound advice while enjoying the experience of being here.

 

[RogerS]

And the drip groove Roger? That is a poor design detail for an exterior door.
It needs a weather board for rain deflection and to stop water tracking under the door past the water bar.

Incidentally veneered external doors are not hollow, insurance companies would never allow it in the UK, apart from the thermal barrier aspect!

Sheesh! I thought your failed 'Ethics' post would have taught you something! You are not as good as your ego dictates. Yet you continue to post as an authority, all of the deity's protect those who take your word as gospel.
I don't often post like this but I hate people getting taken for a ride, I have been working 27 years in the carpentry and joinery trade and worked hard to get where I am, I never pass on erroneous information, if I am not sure, I say so, or research before I say anything, then only if convinced.
There are many chancers out there, don't be one of them. (or a victim either)

Rob ( known on other sites, where I am able to use the name, Rob-GB)

N.B. This post is with respect to all forum members who appreciate honesty and sound advice while enjoying the experience of being here.

Well, I thank you for jumping down my throat. That is really appreciated. A simple query would have sufficed but, oh no, you have to jump in with both size 12's.

If you had bothered to politely ask before wading in, I could have told you that the weatherboard was fitted later on.

 

[JoinerySolutions]

...
Do the slopes at the bottom act as the weather strip? or did you add one to this door afterwards?

They are part of the bottom rail.
Here's a better picture

Not what you answered.

 

[RogerS]

It still doesn't justify your vitriolic attack.

 

[JoinerySolutions]

It still doesn't justify your vitriolic attack.

Nothing vitriolic in it, just plain and simple words.
Vitriol I save for people who really upset me, and then my language can get very interesting.
Do everyone a favour and climb down from your self imposed pedestal.
It is not a means to win friends or influence people, actually knowing what you talk or write about, however, is.

Again, due respect to other forum members who appreciate honesty and sound advice while enjoying the experience of being here.

Regards Rob.

 

[RogerS]

I refuse to stoop to your level. The others can judge for themselves whether your attack was justified or not. Sorry, Mick, that your thread seems to have been hijacked with a different agenda.

 

[JoinerySolutions]

Well Roger, yes they can.
But I have never deleted a post so anyone can see where I posted in aid of another member or where I stood up to correct errors.

And Mick if you need any advice, should you take on the door as a project, just PM me and I will assist with drawings and how to advice, you do not have to have a fully pro shop to make one.
This is not a 'Hijack', purely an effort to stop erroneous advice.

I am sorry that I ever felt that it was required on a woodworking forum.

I hope it will be the last.

Respectfully, Robert Johnson

 

[johnjin]

Well Roger
I judged and agree 100% with Rob.

John