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Using oilstones with water?

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ali27

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What would happen if you used an oilstone with water?

Ali
 

bosshogg

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They would cut fast but clog just as fast, oil helps the dislodged metal particles float out of the way. The trick is to get as thin an oil like medium, that allows fast cutting and the lubrication/float away effect, spit has some and I used it constantly on site if I had no other...bosshogg :)

Imagination is more important than knowledge...
Albert Einstein 8)
 

dunbarhamlin

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Natural or synthetic?
Many natural stones work equally well with either. I have an Arkansas Lily White I use with (soapy) water.
Synthetic stones, such as Norton India stones are impregnated with oil during manufacture. These wouldn't work well with water, as the water would bead on the surface instead of flushing the pores.
 

Jacob

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You have to clean up a lot more with water or you get rust all over the place, unless you have a good set-up with lots of running water e.g. a big sink with suitable surfaces for the stones.
Without that, oil is cleaner - especially if you use a magnet to remove swarf and have plenty of old rags always to hand.
 

János

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Hello,

Natural oilstones can be used with water, as water does no harm to them. Some of the natural waterstones could be used with oil (like the Belgian stones, or Turkish stones), but some would clog from it. Vitrified and resin bond man-made stones could be used with either, but most fine honing stones are designed/intended for light oil, like petroleum/kerosene. Electroplated diamond hones can be used with any kind of lubricant (WD40, petroleum, water etc.)

Have a nice day,

János
 

jimi43

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I use a grinder to get a primary bevel...then I use a natural waterstone to get the honed edge.



That one is my Charnleywood Forest one...worked up to a slurry with a slurry stone.

Seems to work for me....



...paring is fine and it is simple to do a quick touch up.

I have a few oilstone which are aggressive and quite good for lots of stock removal but for honing on stones...natural waterstones with water every time

I don't appear to get any rust...mind you...I do occasionally wipe over with Camelia Oil...which might be the reason :wink:

Some stones...like the fabulous "Yellow Lake" natural stone can be used with water or oil...whatever rocks your boat.

I also use Scary Sharp...which is a great process...but I like the joy of using my waterstones....sad b*gger that I am... 8)

Jim
 

bugbear

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jimi43":3bicclfm said:
I use a grinder to get a primary bevel...then I use a natural waterstone to get the honed edge.



That one is my Charnleywood Forest one...worked up to a slurry with a slurry stone.
Wrong colour, methinks.

BugBear
 

GazPal

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Add a pinch of bicarb/baking powder to the water and you'll find there's even less of a rusting problem when using whet stones. :wink: It's a blacksmith's trick that works very nicely.
 

jimi43

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bugbear":3b1z7c3p said:
jimi43":3b1z7c3p said:
I use a grinder to get a primary bevel...then I use a natural waterstone to get the honed edge.



That one is my Charnleywood Forest one...worked up to a slurry with a slurry stone.
Wrong colour, methinks.

BugBear
It looks a yellow colour from that angle BB but it is green with red veins I promise....



Mind you...I'm only going by the conclusion of the entire razor and hone thingy forum experts...you know..the ones with the cuts on their chins.... :mrgreen: (I will be banned now after that joke.... :oops: )

But I am more than happy to accept your expert advise mate..... :wink:

Jim
 

Tony Spear

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jimi43":1igxy91o said:
Some stones...like the fabulous "Yellow Lake" natural stone can be used with water or oil...whatever rocks your boat.

Jim
Jim' I've got one o' they, still in original box, but I've no idea what grade or how good it really is.
It's gets fairly good mentions in the "throat cutting" forums but they don't seem to use the grade descriptions as we do, but I assume it must be classed as pretty fine for woodworking purposes.?

My Grandfather was always messing about with different shaving methods (cut throat, Safety, Rolls etc.) so I assume it came from him. We had a Family holiday cottage in North Wales, so I wouldn't be surprised if it came direct from the quarry.
 

jimi43

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Tony Spear":1rjvn1cr said:
jimi43":1rjvn1cr said:
Some stones...like the fabulous "Yellow Lake" natural stone can be used with water or oil...whatever rocks your boat.

Jim
Jim' I've got one o' they, still in original box, but I've no idea what grade or how good it really is.
It's gets fairly good mentions in the "throat cutting" forums but they don't seem to use the grade descriptions as we do, but I assume it must be classed as pretty fine for woodworking purposes.?

My Grandfather was always messing about with different shaving methods (cut throat, Safety, Rolls etc.) so I assume it came from him. We had a Family holiday cottage in North Wales, so I wouldn't be surprised if it came direct from the quarry.
Yes...I have three of them...two in a box and one stamped on the end...



You need to flatten them off like this:



....simply lap on some abrasive paper on glass...and you can create a slurry with water, a drop of soap and another slate slurry stone...or two Yellow Lakes...if you are lucky enough to have another.

They produce a very fine microbevel...great stones indeed but they are final hones...not for fast cutting at all.

I would love to see a picture of yours...my other one is in a yellow box and is a thicker one...the third being the next one counter-clockwise:



Try it...you will be surprised what a nice edge it creates.

Jim
 

bugbear

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ali27":178u2jy7 said:
What would happen if you used an oilstone with water?

Ali
If you're trying to identify an unknown old stone, always try water as a lubricant first.

Water will do no harm to an oilstone. If there's oil present it will simply skate off.

However, oil will do great harm to a waterstone.

BugBear
 

Tony Spear

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Jim, mine's exactly the same as your first two pictures.

I've always used it for secondary bevels on chisels and plane irons.

Notice that the right end triangle says "Use best oil only/will produce/keen and lasting edge"

Edited to add: I've never lapped it and it's still dead flat!
 

jimi43

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Tony Spear":14c2butw said:
Jim, mine's exactly the same as your first two pictures.

I've always used it for secondary bevels on chisels and plane irons.

Notice that the right end triangle says "Use best oil only/will produce/keen and lasting edge"

Edited to add: I've never lapped it and it's still dead flat!
Hi Tony...

Yes..I read that...but I fail to see how oil or water would produce an edge that would last any longer than the other..surely that is a factor of the steel?

I use water because I prefer it on slates..but as it says....you can use either.

The stone does have a lovely slurry with water however...would be a shame to waste that characteristic and as BB says...once you use oil...there is no going back.

Jim
 

GazPal

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Slates tend to be impermeable and less affected by water or oil, whereas sandstones (Japanese water stones include types of sandstone as well as slates) tend to be permeable and more likely to be affected by the use of water or oils.
 

bugbear

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jimi43":1xc1qufu said:
Tony Spear":1xc1qufu said:
Jim, mine's exactly the same as your first two pictures.

I've always used it for secondary bevels on chisels and plane irons.

Notice that the right end triangle says "Use best oil only/will produce/keen and lasting edge"

Edited to add: I've never lapped it and it's still dead flat!
Hi Tony...

Yes..I read that...but I fail to see how oil or water would produce an edge that would last any longer than the other..surely that is a factor of the steel?
Well, it's probably just (pre ASA) advertising claims.

However, some edges will last longer than others, on the same steel.

http://www.amgron.clara.net/sharpeningtechnique72.html

Basically, a too-coarse edge provides initiation sites for damage and wear.

BugBear
 

jimi43

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bugbear":1dl25qk0 said:
jimi43":1dl25qk0 said:
I use a grinder to get a primary bevel...then I use a natural waterstone to get the honed edge.



That one is my Charnleywood Forest one...worked up to a slurry with a slurry stone.
Wrong colour, methinks.

BugBear
Hi BB

I had some natural light today so took a picture....what do you think now?



Cheers

Jim
 

woodbloke

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AndyT":21yluqlt said:
Jim

Could it be time for you to treat yourself to this?



Only £10 from http://www.taths.org.uk/publications.htm

...or are you just gathering material for a new edition?!
Good grief, that would suit Jim right down to the ground...a light spot of bedtime reading! He doesn't get out much anyway :mrgreen: :lol: ...mind you, it's the season of deeply filled buckets of rust coming up soon, so all that's going to change :lol: - Rob
 

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