Used Electric Cars

[stevek]

Were stareing into the abyss of a looming MoT,,,and I think our smoky old diesel is after 205,000 ozone gobbling miles going to fail miserably,,,so in a fit of concern for the planet I thought I would check out older electric cars on eBay,,loads of advts, in the main Renault or the well respected Nissan Leaf,,,not exactly old bangers which I would prefer but lots of cars 6 or 7 yrs old at around £6000,,,then I thought I would check out the cost of replaceing a battery if needed,,,I had read that the older Leaf will do around 100 miles in very good nick, but this can drop away to 40 miles or so,,,so costs the same to charge up I suppose but twice as dear to run?? Anyway found this company offering batteries and the prices were the cost of the car,,£5000 or more, up to £10000, and this was not official Nissan main dealer prices.
It seems you could prev get leased batteries on many new cars, but only Renault offer leaseing now, and these leased batteries do transfer to a new owner and would be replaced if they develop faults, but the leases cost from £40 to £100 per month with steep charges if you go over your agreed milage limit. It looks like the idea of going electric is still some way away for us. Anyone had any experience of EVs
Steve.
Edit, I still had the page of a company I found on the net offering replacement Leaf Batteries and copied the prices,,,eye-watering!

• 24kWh battery replacement. Approx £5,500* depending on supply cost of a battery, if one can be found in good condition.

• 30kWh battery replacement. These are harder to price as good 30kWh batteries are hard to find. If a battery can be found the installation is £1,500* (inc VAT) plus battery cost.

• 62kWh battery replacement. We have one available, priced at £13,500 inc VAT and fitting.

 

[Rorschach]

The range drop is due to capacity drop in the battery over time, so you won't go as far but it won't cost you more to charge it up either.

 

[sploo]

That is my major concern with EVs; a well looked after 3-5 year old ICE car should be good for another decade of use if maintained (i.e. it's a decent investment, especially factoring in the cost of the car vs the price when new). A 3-5 year old BEV could give you a nasty surprise if a new (very expensive) battery pack were needed.

 

[Jameshow]

I think a plug in hybrid is the way to go until battery tech / pricing settles down. Locally using electric and then the petrol / diesel engine for longer journeys.

Something like a volvo v60 or Merc c class estate for flexibility.

Cheers James

 

[Rorschach]

That is my major concern with EVs; a well looked after 3-5 year old ICE car should be good for another decade of use if maintained (i.e. it's a decent investment, especially factoring in the cost of the car vs the price when new). A 3-5 year old BEV could give you a nasty surprise if a new (very expensive) battery pack were needed.

Yes a good point. I bought my current ICE car when it was 5 years old, it is now coming up to 14 years old. In the years I have owned it I have only carried out what would be considered normal maintenance, so fluids, tyres, bulbs etc, most of which would be required in an EV as well. I have just in the last year had to do the brakes (not a very expensive job if you do it yourself), again something done on an EV.
The only thing I have had to do that is unique to an ICE is the timing belt/water pump, it is also the most expensive item done at around £250. Unfortunately it's not terribly fuel efficient (underpowered engine) but it has otherwise been quite cheap motoring for a decent size family car. I have probably spent less on the car purchase price and maintenance combined than a single battery replacement would be for a comparable size EV.

 

[D_W]

I think a plug in hybrid is the way to go until battery tech / pricing settles down. Locally using electric and then the petrol / diesel engine for longer journeys.

Something like a volvo v60 or Merc c class estate for flexibility.

Cheers James

Not a good car to buy used, though (older HEVs or PHEVs). Not because of the battery, but because of the charging systems. prius has been here in the states for a LONG time - maybe 25 years now or close. Initially, the myth of battery replacement was thrown around as "every ___ miles, you'll have to replace the batteries".

I saw a reseller say they generally provide replacement batteries only for wrecks, and a separate mechanic say that when the cars come not working, it's not a battery issue, but control system failure and you may go 10 years or 1 with a used one, but the cost will be a multiple of the battery.

That said, if you buy one for 6k and can afford to absorb a hiccup and buy another one for 6k, then no big deal. The charge/controls make used hybrids cheaper than non-hybrid versions here and if you can take the risk, maybe it's worthwhile.

As RS states for himself - I'm also not in this crowd. Have one of the plainest (ICE only) toyotas - it's 13 years old and so far has cost $79 in unexpected maintenance since new.

 

[D_W]

Does the nissan leaf have thermal battery management yet? They showed up her in droves early on due to the low price, but it's cold here, and they've disappeared about as fast.

older teslas (S) aren't hard to find here, even though they're generally unreliable, the batteries aren't the issue as long as they kept under their own thermal management. Tesla 3s are everywhere - would also be surprised if the car outlasts the batteries as they have about 90% of range at 200-300k miles.

 

[Robbo60]

think my first EV purchase is a few years off yet. Too many unknowns still for me.

 

[chris.gid]

I've got a 15 plate BMW i3 and which has done nearly 60k miles and the battery is fine, probably 90% of original capacity. You never get the range the manufacturer quotes but who actually gets the MPG the manufacturer quotes for an ICE car?

In my experience the weather has the biggest impact on range. In winter when its cold, you have heating on, AC on to stop windows misting, driving with lights all the time.....i get 55miles. On a lovely summers day with windows open i can get almost 100miles if i try, 80 would be normal. I know these wound like low numbers today but was normal 6 years ago unless you had a Tesla.

Also the 'range' the car quotes on the trip computer is based on your recent driving, so if you have been doing lots of short journeys in stop start traffic then the car may only show 50 miles range when fully charged, but if you then go an do a long run down A roads at 50 you'll get more than 50 miles as its nor predicting you will do that 'efficient' style of driving.

Maintenance wise i've not had any drive train issues (lets face it there are about 5 moving parts), but normal wear and tear non drive train things have had to be done.

 

[Oaktree11]

Well, I bought one! A pre registered Hyundai Kona. 65kWh battery and a realistic 250m+ range even in the winter. The battery has an 8 year warranty. We usually change our car at about 3 years so 5 years left when we move on.
The car we moved from was a Mercedes E350 convertible. The Kona accelerates nearly as well and so much fun! Who needs 140mph? ICE is a thing of the past for us. There is a lot of development and infrastructure needed for sure but imho ev is the way to go.
Another point for the future is to use the vehicle as battery storage for domestic use. We use about 10kWh a day st home, so 6 days worth of electric in the car which could be topped up by solar and cheap overnight supply. Not for us (too old to get a return, if that’s important to you) but for new builds in the future...?
John

 

[Just4Fun]

who actually gets the MPG the manufacturer quotes for an ICE car?

Me

 

[Just4Fun]

Well, I bought one! A pre registered Hyundai Kona. 65kWh battery and a realistic 250m+ range even in the winter.

Excellent. Could you update us occasionally to let us know how you get on with it?

 

[Terry - Somerset]

The technology is evolving rapidly - a s/h EV for ~£6k buys 8-10 year old technology with a limited range and long charging times.

For local commuting (job, school run, shopping etc), assuming you can charge at home, it may be fine.

For 2 car houehold it may work well. For an only vehicle, range is a constraint unless prepared to hire for the occasional longer journey.

Financially it makes little sense. EV benefits accrue from higher mileage, but an older EV is likely to be low mileage. You would be far better to buy a 2-4 year old conventional petrol engine.

As a toe in the water of what may be an environmentally sound transport - perhaps EV wins.

 

[sploo]

The car we moved from was a Mercedes E350 convertible. The Kona accelerates nearly as well and so much fun! Who needs 140mph? ICE is a thing of the past for us.

That is one very important positive of EV cars for me. It sounds great to have a car capable of an eleventy million mph top speed, but with the amount of traffic, speed cameras and potholes on UK roads I can't even remember the last time I hit 70mph. A car that can do 0-60mph fairly rapidly is probably going to be much more "fun" to drive these days than one with a slower 0-60 that's capable of 100mph+.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Absolute performance comes with lots of power, wide tyres, responsive steering, aerodynamic efficiency, stiif suspension etc. This may make it a race winner, but not necessarily fun.

Fun may be driving a lower powered car hard, on narrower tyres, albeit with responsive steering.

The former needs a race track, the latter can be (to some extent) indulged on public roads.

Think basic Caterham 7 vs Ferrari!

 

[Rorschach]

I get the most fun out of driving when the car starts, gets me to the destination along with all my stuff while keeping me warm, dry and in relative comfort and then does exactly the same when I want to come home.

 

[NikNak]

@stevek i see you're in hants the same as me, are you dead set on an ev.?

Mod edit- when you need to @ somebody make sure there isn't a space like this - @ stevek - now corrected. If it's not in red the @ will not work.
Noel.

 

[stevek]

Hi, well many thanks for everyones thoughts on this, we tend to buy older cars, but I thought it would be interesting to see if it would be possible to get an EV. We haven't found out if we need to change cars just yet, out MoT will be within a few weeks and its depending on what they find that will dictate how we have to go from there,, Nik Nak, yes were in Ringwood,,

 

[NikNak]

stevek... sent you a pm...

 

[stuartpaul]

Well, I bought one! A pre registered Hyundai Kona. 65kWh battery and a realistic 250m+ range even in the winter. The battery has an 8 year warranty. We usually change our car at about 3 years so 5 years left when we move on.
The car we moved from was a Mercedes E350 convertible. The Kona accelerates nearly as well and so much fun! Who needs 140mph? ICE is a thing of the past for us. There is a lot of development and infrastructure needed for sure but imho ev is the way to go.
Another point for the future is to use the vehicle as battery storage for domestic use. We use about 10kWh a day st home, so 6 days worth of electric in the car which could be topped up by solar and cheap overnight supply. Not for us (too old to get a return, if that’s important to you) but for new builds in the future...?
John

I read recently that there’s a recall because of overheating batteries. Might be worth contacting your local dealer?

Nice car and certainly one I’d look at if in the market.