Unusual Mathieson tool......

[Argus]

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This item is listed on e bay today as a 'chisel' (?)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VERY-UNUSUAL- ... 3a6effa36f

It's an unusual thing, shaped a bit like a gunstock-maker's float, but with no discernable cutting edges.

What's it used for?

Leather working or book binding, perhaps?
There's some bidding on it already, any ideas?


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[AndyT]

Years ago there was a thread on here started by someone who had several of these. The consensus then was that they were gunstocker's floats.
The eBay seller has added a note saying that it his tool is a planemaker's float - but I can't see that a planemaker would need floats with a curved profile, so I think that is not right.

 

[jimi43]

Now Andy...far be it from me to dent my reputation without digging through my collection of strange things and photograph a couple...

I understood that they were lead forming tools from the days when we used to poison the population with clean running water from a tap! :mrgreen:

I am not entirely convinced yet and seeing the convex one on FleaBay reinforces my confusion....unless of course it is for clearing the inside of pipes....possible I guess....

My two are at the extremes of size....

...a narrow one and a very wide one....

They actually cut wood rather well now that I have sharpened them the best I can...

They are beautifully made tools...

...but strangely neither have a name nor mark of any sort...

Funnily enough, I was going to put them up on FleaBay in a few weeks...part of my programme to thin out my collection of strange and wonderful tools! I shall watch that auction with interest.

Jim

 

[AndyT]

I should have known it!
The South Eastern eBay Warehouse brings up the best again!

FWIW, here is the old thread I was remembering: https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/gunsmith-floats-t29265.html - but you'll have to take my word for it that the tools being discussed there, and the one on eBay, and Jim's extensive collection, are all the same sort of thing, as the pictures are long gone. Not like planemaker's floats, which are flat bottomed, as this more useful thread showed: https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/what-are-the-different-types-of-floats-t46511.html

I'll be watching too, just out of curiosity - these are not common tools.

 

[Alf]

I was vaguely thinking of lead piping myself, but put it down to some sort of Cluedo virus...

 

[Argus]

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.... and I thought that it was just me.

I have a few woodworking floats. Some I've bought or salvaged, some I made myself; they are fantastic tools when sharp, but I can't for the life of me see how these other tools are able to cut wood other than relying on the arris of the edge and the flat part behind, to burnish the cut edge. It just ain't a cutting edge to my way of thinking. At least there's no obvious way of sharpening them, other than finding a hone of exactly the same size and shape..

There's nothing that I can see in Salaman or any other of the literature in my collection or elsewhere to identify them, as they are distinct and different in shape to a woodworkers float and seem to come in a variey of shapes and sizes; both straight and curved, convex and concave.

At this time I'm inclined to the view that the shape was more important than the ability to cut and that the trade that used them seems to have vanished.

Keep the opinions coming.


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[bugbear]

Does no-one have an old (or reprint) Mathieson catalogue? - the answer surely lies there, since we know this example is made by them?

Edit; shortly after posting this question, THIS showed up in my saved searches...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI. ... SS:GB:1123

Anyone got deep pockets?

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

Does no-one have an old (or reprint) Mathieson catalogue? - the answer surely lies there, since we know this example is made by them?

BugBear

That's just what I was thinking - in previous discussions the tools were unmarked - but I was rather hoping that you would have one, BB!

Looking into the question a bit further, it seems that Mathieson catalogues were magnificent hardback affairs running to several hundred pages, including coloured lithographs. Consequently, they are themselves desirable collectables, and the one on eBay at the moment will doubtless spiral skywards in price.

There was a Ken Roberts reprint in the 70s, but I expect that is also scarce and costly.

The only extracts I've found have been the pages about planes - interesting, but not much use here.

 

[MIGNAL]

Not Lead workers or Gunsmiths tools. They are used for shaping Horn or Bone/Ivory - probably when these materials were much more commonly used on both decorative and functional objects.

 

[MIGNAL]

Winning bid of £51. Quite a lot more than I thought it would attain. Still in demand I guess.

 

[bugbear]

Winning bid of £51. Quite a lot more than I thought it would attain. Still in demand I guess.

I quite commonly (these days) buys tools at car boots precisely because I CAN'T identify them. I've been interested in tools for long enough that this is not a frequent occurrence.

I then have (probably) a rare tool, and (certainly) the thrill of the chase of identifying it.

Here's one of my more extreme cases, bought in 2007, and not identified:

http://swingleydev.com/archive/get.php? ... =1#message

... until 2010

http://swingleydev.com/archive/get.php? ... =1#message

I don't normally pay very much though, but others may have similar notions and larger wallets.

BugBear

 

[Argus]

Winning bid of £51. Quite a lot more than I thought it would attain. Still in demand I guess.

...... wait until the winner tries to make a gunstock........ =P~ =P~ =P~ =P~


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[Harbo]

It's funny, having used scale rules all my life I never thought of them as tools?

I have a couple of rules that the organization I worked for had specially made when we went over to metric.
They are metric scales to convert the old Imperial plan scales - 1:480, 1:63360, 1:10560 and 1:120.
Might puzzle somebody in the future?

I also came across a 12" metal rule marked with the usual 8ths and 10ths but also 14ths and 28ths (and 12ths, 24ths and 48ths) - what was that used for?

Rod

 

[jimi43]

Fifty one bleedin' squids!!! :shock: :shock:

My LORD!!

Ok...maybe I will stick mine up on FleaBay now... :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[bugbear]

It's funny, having used scale rules all my life I never thought of them as tools?

I have a couple of rules that the organization I worked for had specially made when we went over to metric.
They are metric scales to convert the old Imperial plan scales - 1:480, 1:63360, 1:10560 and 1:120.
Might puzzle somebody in the future?

BTW, I have personally made a decision NEVER to own a pattern maker's shrink rule. Bloody dangerous item to have around the workshop.

I also came across a 12" metal rule marked with the usual 8ths and 10ths but also 14ths and 28ths (and 12ths, 24ths and 48ths) - what was that used for?

Rod

I think before the emergence of consistent decimal systems, and calculators, many scales were rigged for ease of mental arithmetic, albeit in narrow circumstances - I don't know the circumstances where 14 (and its multiples) would be useful. Some 6" rules are smothered in scales of various kinds, which makes them kind of cute, but dodgy in practice.

A rule marked with both 12th and 10ths is a dangerous item.

BugBear

 

[Alf]

BTW, I have personally made a decision NEVER to own a pattern maker's shrink rule. Bloody dangerous item to have around the workshop.

Chicken. I like to live on the edge - just not too near it. The patternmaker's rule is the one on the very bottom of the stack on the hook, so happily the odds of ever picking it up at all are slim. :wink:

I assume the final hammer price on the auction is as much to do with it being "Mathieson" as much as its function.

 

[AndyT]

I see that the Mathieson catalogue on eBay went for £158 + postage.
If the "lucky" buyer is reading this, could you please find the page with the floats on and post a scan of it on here?

 

[penwithchris]

I have bought and sold several of these tools over the years
David Stanley Auctions nearly always has examples
A quick look through back catalogues shows a lot with two examples listed as ' an unusual cabinet maker's float by Herring and another' - lot 1068 - realised £24 only
I have seen whole sets being offered by David Stanley, and I just missed a set with 20 different profiles at a local car boot sale.
The cataloguer for David Stanley was usually pretty well up on correct descriptions, but I notice there is one being offered on another auction site at the moment as a 'glue spreader'?
I guess it has worked well for the seller for that purpose
I have always sold them as 'plane maker's floats' - it seems to give them that extra 'cachet' and tends to inflate the price :roll:

 

[Bedrock]

I bought 3 of these at Tony Murland's Felixstowe auction, last October. They were listed as cabinet maker's floats and cost me about £10 plus premium. I tried them without any tidying up, with the grain, without much success. I have now sharpened the front face of each tooth, on the flat one, again without much joy. The other two are hollow in X section.
Does anyone know what the correct sharpening method might be? I am working through filing a clearance angle behind the cutting face, but I wonder what the cutting theory is supposed to be. Is it similar to Bill Carter's square ground chisel?
One is just stamped "warranted cast steel", and the other two, "G. Tummon Sheffield Warranted cast steel"
Any thoughts/advice would be much appreciated.
Mike

 

[AndyT]

I bought 3 of these at Tony Murland's Felixstowe auction, last October. They were listed as cabinet maker's floats and cost me about £10 plus premium. I tried them without any tidying up, with the grain, without much success. I have now sharpened the front face of each tooth, on the flat one, again without much joy. The other two are hollow in X section.
Does anyone know what the correct sharpening method might be? I am working through filing a clearance angle behind the cutting face, but I wonder what the cutting theory is supposed to be. Is it similar to Bill Carter's square ground chisel?
One is just stamped "warranted cast steel", and the other two, "G. Tummon Sheffield Warranted cast steel"
Any thoughts/advice would be much appreciated.
Mike

Hi and welcome

At the risk of going round in circles, I can offer this snippet about planemakers' floats - at Marples they used a special jig to hold a float for sharpening.

You can just about see one in the bottom right of this picture

from this old thread https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums...n-hawley-experience-t61355.html?hilit= hawley.

Also, there is a Lie-Nielsen video on how to sharpen floats here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJGqDnXVA4c&feature=youtu.be