Ultex Diamond Stones
- Thread starter custard
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
rafezetter
Troll Hunter
I had made a post about how I found 2 of the 3 stones I bought to be hollow and asking ultex owners if they found the same, but reading through all the posts I now see a hollow along the length is not uncommon.
My advice to any prospective owners would be to check them thoroughly out of the box.
My advice to any prospective owners would be to check them thoroughly out of the box.
custard
Established Member
I passed the comment about stone flatness on to my engineer friend, he's happy with his 300 and 1200 stones but said the 600 is a fraction off, he didn't mention if it was in the length or width.
Beau, my DMT's have been in use for maybe 8 or 10 years, but I can definitely see that the 600, which is probably the grit that's had the most use, is getting past its prime. Even after cleaning it up with some Ajax or Vim scouring powder and a stiff brush, it cuts more slowly. I might retire it and try DW's suggestion of an Atoma 600 grit, Dieter Schmid stocks them in Europe.
Beau, my DMT's have been in use for maybe 8 or 10 years, but I can definitely see that the 600, which is probably the grit that's had the most use, is getting past its prime. Even after cleaning it up with some Ajax or Vim scouring powder and a stiff brush, it cuts more slowly. I might retire it and try DW's suggestion of an Atoma 600 grit, Dieter Schmid stocks them in Europe.
custard":15ce9q5d said:
Yes its not as new but that initial very fast cut is soon gone but cant say it's changed much since then. Think it's safe to say I don't do as much work as you either. I don't use it for sharpening much as prefer the water stones. It's main work is flattening the backs of new blades and dressing the water stones.
custard":7bi4iqcr said:
I like the ezelaps better for honing, but the atomas are probably the most durable of the regular priced hones.
Some of it depends on price, too. For quite a while over here, ezelap 8x3 hones were really cheap, but they have gone up and not come back down. Not sure, but maybe that's attached to the positive press they've received.
mr edd
Established Member
Hi,
Thanks everyone for advice, much appreciated. I have heard diamond stones cut fast to begin with but then ''settle'' down, seems like from the responses they all keep on going after.
I use my Waterstones pretty hard, nearly every night when back from site work and very often during any workshop day.
The Atoma is new one to me so will check those out.
Thanks again
Edd
Thanks everyone for advice, much appreciated. I have heard diamond stones cut fast to begin with but then ''settle'' down, seems like from the responses they all keep on going after.
I use my Waterstones pretty hard, nearly every night when back from site work and very often during any workshop day.
The Atoma is new one to me so will check those out.
Thanks again
Edd
paulrockliffe
Established Member
What I read said to use glass cleaner, which I'd just bought to clean my car windscreen on the inside, so I've been using that. I forgot to wipe it off and all the filings turned to rust, but it cleaned up immediately when I washed it off. don't know if there's anything better though!
woodenstuart":3cafsizf said:
Anything that doesn't damage nickel should be fine when the stone is just a nickel plated piece of steel.
Stu Tierney said a while ago that he would recommend against anything oil based on an atoma because the atoma's are a diamond sheet bonded to a milled bar and he wasn't sure if things like penetrant would weaken the bond.
But for all of the one-piece items, no problem.
I have used water for somewhere around 10 years (though sometimes diamond hone use is very infrequent), and the rust has never been a significant issue.
I suspect that glass cleaner is 95%+ water. It's what I use but I keep a bit of kitchen paper handy. A quick wipe just after using the diamond stone keeps them clean and rust free. Literally takes two seconds.
After a tip here for using a very hard oilstone, I tried isopropyl alcohol as a lubricant. It works well and wipes off perfectly cleanly. No reason to think it wouldn't work on diamonds. (It works well on windscreens as well)
Just tried it - brilliant, so quick and clean. I'm converted, I'd not used a lubricant before.
Just tried it - brilliant, so quick and clean. I'm converted, I'd not used a lubricant before.
I use GT85 on Eze-Laps and also on finer oilstones seems to improve the cut, get it order and collect over the Web from Halfords. Use nothing on my Atoma plate it is only used for water stone flattening so it does get wet but I dry it carefully. Diamond sheet is stuck on to the Atoma base with double sided tape so solvents could cause a problem.
No skills
Established Member
I'm currently using a mix of screenwash and Mr muscle glass cleaner, I have used gt85 as well - I'll often clean up the stone with a squirt of gt85 when I'm finished.
Aldi often have gt85, I think it's ptfe based.
Aldi often have gt85, I think it's ptfe based.
custard
Established Member
I've been meaning to post a little follow up to this. My friend brought around his Ultex stones recently and we had a good look at how they were holding up.
There was some loss of diamond grit around the edges, I couldn't quite get it visible in a photo but with the naked eye there were a few small baldish patches within about 3-5mm of the edges, where he'd hung a tool over the edge, applied a bit too much pressure, and stripped the grit out from the bonding medium. Nothing catastrophic though, the stones still performed perfectly well. I've heard that some users have had problems because Ultex don't grade their diamond grit that accurately, consequently you can get the odd coarser grit fragment which leaves one or two deeper scratch marks. My friend didn't have this problem though with his stones so I don't know how common it is?
I've subsequently followed DW's advice and replaced my DMT stones with Atoma (which are now sold by Workshop Heaven in the UK as well as by Dieter Schmidt in Germany). There's no dodging the fact that the Atoma stones cut much faster than the Ultex. But there's also no dodging the fact that they're much more expensive too!
For the price I still think Ultex (or whatever other brand name they're sold under) represent very good value, if you were using them all day every day you might want to spend more and get something better, but for occasional or hobby use Ultex are hard to beat. Even if you replaced them after a couple of years, at the promoted price they're still an amazing bargain!
There was some loss of diamond grit around the edges, I couldn't quite get it visible in a photo but with the naked eye there were a few small baldish patches within about 3-5mm of the edges, where he'd hung a tool over the edge, applied a bit too much pressure, and stripped the grit out from the bonding medium. Nothing catastrophic though, the stones still performed perfectly well. I've heard that some users have had problems because Ultex don't grade their diamond grit that accurately, consequently you can get the odd coarser grit fragment which leaves one or two deeper scratch marks. My friend didn't have this problem though with his stones so I don't know how common it is?
I've subsequently followed DW's advice and replaced my DMT stones with Atoma (which are now sold by Workshop Heaven in the UK as well as by Dieter Schmidt in Germany). There's no dodging the fact that the Atoma stones cut much faster than the Ultex. But there's also no dodging the fact that they're much more expensive too!
For the price I still think Ultex (or whatever other brand name they're sold under) represent very good value, if you were using them all day every day you might want to spend more and get something better, but for occasional or hobby use Ultex are hard to beat. Even if you replaced them after a couple of years, at the promoted price they're still an amazing bargain!
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
woodenstuart":fyx5mf7z said:
I have several diamond stones over a period of 25 years or so, including DMT and Eze-laps (mainly using the latter). All I have ever used is water and a little soft soap (on water and ceramic stones as well). Rust has never been an issue.
I am very wary about using anything that actually "lubricates" the stone since that is not what you want to do - Honing requires abrasion, and lubrication will reduce this. Water simply floats the swarf away (oil stones are different in that the stones soak up the oil).
Regards from Perth
Derek
The thinner oil based lubricants and water displacers are fine. I don't notice a difference in cutting speed with them vs. water, but they do have some improved feel in terms of action and they don't dry off as quickly. Can't flatten a water stone with one with oil on it, but it's easy enough to wash it off.
Oil would be OK in a film - it just needs to be thin enough that the diamond will penetrate into the oil.
I recall reading years ago that water displacers like WD40 can't be used on stones because they leave a film that will build up, but it's not the case. It may leave a film over time, but honing on a diamond hone will remove it (the rubbing of the tool will).
re: custard's post above, I still have some of the ultex stones, and use one sometimes for setting up kamisori that I've reground. They're usually close to untempered and the hone works well for that. It's slower and more tired, but that's true of all of them. I still have the two atoma plates I bought probably 12 years ago now, they're slower, too - the only reason I'd go for the cost level of them would be for flattening stones. The ultex types can be hollow or a little bumpy, but for typical sharpening, that doesn't matter. I'd summarize them as being absolute dandy stones for what is $15 to $20 in the united states, easily equivalent to DMT's duo and dia products. If they don't hurt the edge of a kamisori, they won't hurt the edge of anything. I prefer them when they're a little worn. If an edge is too far gone for one to refresh it, crystolon or india is a better option. A good friable crystolon stone will cut anything, including the really absurd powdered wondersteels like S30V and SGPS.
At any rate, I would think a $20 two sided ultex stone would hone bevels and do minor honing on backs of tools for a decade no problem. Maybe three. For back flattening of poorly made tools or older tools, PSA al-ox paper on glass. 10 times faster, and cheaper, too.
Oil would be OK in a film - it just needs to be thin enough that the diamond will penetrate into the oil.
I recall reading years ago that water displacers like WD40 can't be used on stones because they leave a film that will build up, but it's not the case. It may leave a film over time, but honing on a diamond hone will remove it (the rubbing of the tool will).
re: custard's post above, I still have some of the ultex stones, and use one sometimes for setting up kamisori that I've reground. They're usually close to untempered and the hone works well for that. It's slower and more tired, but that's true of all of them. I still have the two atoma plates I bought probably 12 years ago now, they're slower, too - the only reason I'd go for the cost level of them would be for flattening stones. The ultex types can be hollow or a little bumpy, but for typical sharpening, that doesn't matter. I'd summarize them as being absolute dandy stones for what is $15 to $20 in the united states, easily equivalent to DMT's duo and dia products. If they don't hurt the edge of a kamisori, they won't hurt the edge of anything. I prefer them when they're a little worn. If an edge is too far gone for one to refresh it, crystolon or india is a better option. A good friable crystolon stone will cut anything, including the really absurd powdered wondersteels like S30V and SGPS.
At any rate, I would think a $20 two sided ultex stone would hone bevels and do minor honing on backs of tools for a decade no problem. Maybe three. For back flattening of poorly made tools or older tools, PSA al-ox paper on glass. 10 times faster, and cheaper, too.
