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TS200 - Warped Table?

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MichaelM

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I treated myself to new TS200 just before the price rise came into effect and discovered that I had become the distinctly unimpressed owner of a bad one. The rise and fall wasn't working due to the trunnion being dislocated from the assembly within and this had allowed the entire saw unit to move freely throughout its journey, possibly even from the manufacturer, assuming it simply wasn't assembled correctly that is. It may have gotten a heavy knock I don't know but what I do know is that due to the saw unit being unrestrained, it had been bouncing around all over the place and subsequently had bent the riving knife in the process. Several of the aluminium extrusions were also distorted somewhat, one in particular bearing evidence of having been dropped heavily on one corner; the steel side table was only of use as a very large soup bowl and to top it all, neither of the cast iron tables were flat. The sliding one would have been fine having just over 0.5mm of a belly in the middle I'm sure but the main table had a hump of approximately 1mm roughly above the motor beside the blade slot.

Needless to say, I contacted Axminster straightaway, who as expected made no excuses, apologised for the inconvenience and are going to collect the saw from me. I couldn't ask for more in that regard, and that is one of the reasons I have always looked to them first for my purchases. I appreciate decent customer service and Axminster are one of very few who actually do provide that.

As it stands, I asked one of their reps to check over the saws replacement and ensure that at the very least the tables are flat. The other little niggles can be remedied easily enough but when the main attraction of a table saw like this is a nice flat cast iron top, it is reasonable I would think to be disappointed not to get it. Anyway, they have looked at a couple of saws and said that none of them are flat, that they are pretty much all like the one I have and are awaiting my instructions as to what course of action to take. I would imagine that since so many on this forum and elsewhere are very impressed with the TS200 that surely those saws are at least flat, or as close as makes no difference? Surely warped tops would or at least, should, be in the minority?

Has anyone any advice on this? Is your table flat?

Michael
 

Digit

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Depends on what you mean by flat Mike. I've seen quite a few that have sunk where the top is taking the weight of the motor for example, but it depends on what you intend using the saw for.
For simple ripping a certain amount of bow would probably not matter. If you want to use it for cutting joints etc then IMO it would depend on which way it is bowed and to what extent.

Roy.
 

studders

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When I got mine at £299 for the complete package I was prepared to do a little work to get it right. That included some work getting the top dead flat, which was hard going but I got there.
Had I bought one at the current price I would refuse to do all that work and return the saw
 

MichaelM

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Digit":1j4ussmo said:
Depends on what you mean by flat Mike. I've seen quite a few that have sunk where the top is taking the weight of the motor for example, but it depends on what you intend using the saw for.
For simple ripping a certain amount of bow would probably not matter. If you want to use it for cutting joints etc then IMO it would depend on which way it is bowed and to what extent.

Roy.
Thanks Roy. God only knows just what I would have ended up doing with the saw particularly as I was intending to have it for a good few years. As for the hump in the table, it runs along right where the blade slot is and is about 1mm high. It is enough that the straightedge can rock noticeably back and forth on it.

studders":1j4ussmo said:
When I got mine at £299 for the complete package I was prepared to do a little work to get it right. That included some work getting the top dead flat, which was hard going but I got there.
Had I bought one at the current price I would refuse to do all that work and return the saw
I paid the pre increase price of £349 inc vat and fully expected to do as I do with all my tools and that is spend some time getting it to the point where it is good enough to feel confident in using it, if you know what I mean. I didn't mind fiddling here and there as long as the basic ingredients of a good saw were evident and to my mind that included a flat surface. I might be wrong about that but I'd feel a lot better about the saw if I didn't have such concerns from the off.

If you don't mind me asking, how did you flatten your top and had you much to take off? As it stands, this one has been through the wars it would seem and is going back. I have asked that they look a little deeper to see if they can dig out a better one but I will have to wait and see if that is something they are happy to do, if such a thing exists that is.

Thanks gentlemen!
 

studders

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Your hump is in exactly the same place mine was and about the same size.
I used...

A precision Straight edge.
Feeler Gauges.
Belt sander with Zirconium(sp?) belt
Hand sanding block with emery cloth.

Basically just marked the high spots using the straight edge and feeler gauges and took them down with the belt sander. Once they were close to level I blended them in using the hand block and emery cloth. I carried on this process until I couldn't get a 0.1mm feeeler gauge under the straight edge.
It takes a lot longer to do than to describe but I wasn't rushing so I didn't take too much off or overheat anything.

HTH.


Edit. On mine the casting was more than thick enough to be able to remove what I had to.
 

Digit

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My SIP had a tapered 'T' slot, took hours getting it true.

Roy.
 

JakeS

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MichaelM":2lf36i2t said:
I treated myself to new TS200 just before the price rise came into effect and discovered that I had become the distinctly unimpressed owner of a bad one.
For what it's worth: I did the same thing. I've unfortunately been really busy with other things since it arrived and I haven't had the chance to set it up yet, which I realise makes me a terrible person. Accordingly, I've not taken the plastic off the table yet, but I just nipped out and had a quick check through the plastic and I can't find any non-flat spots at all like that. Obviously it's not a totally reliable check as the plastic could be somehow padding it out and stopping my edge from rocking, but even after double-checking the area you mention I can't find an issue. So either I have much lower standards than you or there are some TS-200s recently shipped without this particular flaw. ;-)
 

MichaelM

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Hello Jake,

Thanks very much for letting me know that about your saw. As for not having set it up yet, I was aware that there is only a relatively brief period of time after delivery to look over the saw for any missing bits etc which afterwards would be the responsibility of the purchaser. I thought it was five days but it appears to be seven. Normally when I get a new toy I'm into the box immediately but in this case I had to make a bit of room for it and while doing that got stuck into a much needed bit of tidying up as well so it was four days later that I had my first look. The protective film on the table top is very thin, much like a bit of cling film I suppose but on mine it was gathered up in places so I took it off and cleaned the surface down with a bit of white spirit before checking the table. I do hope that once you get a good look that yours is ok. I would be of the opinion that not every saw could possibly have hump in it like this one and yours bears out that theory unless of course the plastic is in the way, but it really is very thin indeed.

Thanks for the info Studders. That is some very useful information and if I do manage to get a decent one, any little niggles might well be tackled using your approach.

There's been no word from Axminster yet about whether or not a suitable replacement can be found so I suppose I will have to wait until next week to see what is on the cards. I'll update of course as and when I get a resolution.
 

JakeS

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MichaelM":3sz75r48 said:
I do hope that once you get a good look that yours is ok. I would be of the opinion that not every saw could possibly have hump in it like this one and yours bears out that theory unless of course the plastic is in the way, but it really is very thin indeed.
I got it out and set it up and did a couple of test cuts today; double- and triple-checking the surface I don't find any problems, still, so I would hold out some hope that Ax will be able to find you a flat replacement! I did find that the sliding table rail with mine had a bit of a dent in it - probably from one of the other things in the same box knocking into it in transit - but it doesn't affect operation at all, so I'm not that fussed about it.

I'd been holding off on buying a table saw for a long time 'cause I was terrified I'd lose all my fingers or worse, I spent all last night watching Steve Maskery's tablesaw DVDs and wondering where to buy plastic for a big spiffy guard, then I put the saw together and adjusted stuff and managed to cut myself on the damn thing within about fifteen seconds of plugging it in.

(Thankfully just a scratch across the back of the thumb, thanks to the sharp corner on the aluminium rip fence which is too damn close to the fence-locking handle. ;-))
 

MichaelM

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JakeS":1mjjqw23 said:
MichaelM":1mjjqw23 said:
I do hope that once you get a good look that yours is ok. I would be of the opinion that not every saw could possibly have hump in it like this one and yours bears out that theory unless of course the plastic is in the way, but it really is very thin indeed.
I got it out and set it up and did a couple of test cuts today; double- and triple-checking the surface I don't find any problems, still, so I would hold out some hope that Ax will be able to find you a flat replacement! I did find that the sliding table rail with mine had a bit of a dent in it - probably from one of the other things in the same box knocking into it in transit - but it doesn't affect operation at all, so I'm not that fussed about it.

I'd been holding off on buying a table saw for a long time 'cause I was terrified I'd lose all my fingers or worse, I spent all last night watching Steve Maskery's tablesaw DVDs and wondering where to buy plastic for a big spiffy guard, then I put the saw together and adjusted stuff and managed to cut myself on the damn thing within about fifteen seconds of plugging it in.

(Thankfully just a scratch across the back of the thumb, thanks to the sharp corner on the aluminium rip fence which is too damn close to the fence-locking handle. ;-))
Hello Jake, I'm glad to hear that your saw is ok, as is your thumb! There's definitely a few jagged edges here and there that's for sure.

Unfortunately for me, I have been told that a total of four saws were examined in order and that they were all out by 5mm. I'm not quite sure just where the 5mm is, but if it refers to heights and hollows then I can foresee an awful lot of saws winging their way back to base. This would indicate a bad batch to me but evidently this is as far as Axminster are going to go. I'm quite surprised and pretty disappointed to be honest but I now officially give up on the TS-200, particularly if this is what passes for quality control on this batch at least.

I'm now going to read up on the Charnwood W619 which looks just like the 200 and may or may not be better but it certainly costs a fair bit more or the Xcalibur TC10RAS whose purchase would involve some forward planning i.e. scraping the extra together. I originally jumped due to the imminent price increase, so now at least I have time to make up my mind on what to do.

Thanks again to all who took the time to help out. It is much appreciated gentlemen.

Michael
 

MickCheese

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I've just had a look on eBay and there is a Kity 419 (170764982504) for £300 or offers. No sliding carriage. It is the saw the TS200 is based on. I don't think this one is worth £300 when the sliding carriage is nearly £100. I have the Kity and do use the sliding carriage quite a lot but I know others don't seem to like it. One down side is it takes up a lot of room.

And.....

There are a number of other used saws in your price bracket that may be worth looking at.

Just a thought.

Mick
 

MichaelM

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Thanks Mick. I saw that one too given my tendency to look at all the stuff I can't get because on this side of the Irish sea there's not so much of a selection of readily available used equipment and the option to bring in stuff from England etc is hampered by the cost of delivery. That is something I like very much indeed about Axminster in that they don't add a surcharge, and I would say given the rates the couriers extract, probably don't make that much on the sale of a weighty item to this part of the world. In that regard, they have no competition.

In the meantime, I've requested a rough estimate on the likely delivery charge for an Xcalibur just to see how much they can scare me. I expect the answer to be "lots", though we will see.

Michael
 

JakeS

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MichaelM":ed13u1gc said:
Unfortunately for me, I have been told that a total of four saws were examined in order and that they were all out by 5mm. I'm not quite sure just where the 5mm is, but if it refers to heights and hollows then I can foresee an awful lot of saws winging their way back to base.
Bloody hell - yeah, to be honest, I can't imagine where a 5mm 'out' couldn't be significant, but if it's variation in table surface it's just insane. Sorry to hear you're not getting any joy. :/

[EDIT: Just a thought - are you sure it's 5mm out and not .5mm out? That would be a lot more reasonable, and the kind of thing that could probably pass unnoticed for a lot of people...]

MichaelM":ed13u1gc said:
I'm now going to read up on the Charnwood W619 which looks just like the 200 and may or may not be better but it certainly costs a fair bit more
To be honest, given that it looks absolutely identical to the TS-200 other than the casing and stand, if you've already had a bad experience with that design I might be a little wary of it myself! Axminster are reknown for their good customer service, at the very least I'd want to make sure wherever I bought a similar saw from had a similar reputation!

The Xcalibre one I'd be wary of simply because I don't see the word 'induction' anywhere in the product description, but that's maybe just me. I have one brush-motor piece of woodworking equipment, and it's noisier than the others put together. ;-)
 

MichaelM

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JakeS":1rwx2rh1 said:
Bloody hell - yeah, to be honest, I can't imagine where a 5mm 'out' couldn't be significant, but if it's variation in table surface it's just insane. Sorry to hear you're not getting any joy. :/

[EDIT: Just a thought - are you sure it's 5mm out and not .5mm out? That would be a lot more reasonable, and the kind of thing that could probably pass unnoticed for a lot of people...]
I was told 5mm but I did query that with them yesterday evening as I found that level of deviation to be inconceivable. They got back to me this morning to say the first saw they checked had more than 1mm of a dip in the middle whereas the other three had more than 0.5mm. Big difference between that and the 5mm original figure but obviously a typo at the time.

To be honest, given that it looks absolutely identical to the TS-200 other than the casing and stand, if you've already had a bad experience with that design I might be a little wary of it myself! Axminster are reknown for their good customer service, at the very least I'd want to make sure wherever I bought a similar saw from had a similar reputation!
Yes, I tend to agree. It is just another clone and it appears to be a very new model too so there is precious little information available. I'm in no rush now so I'll just see what opportunities present themselves.

On the Axminster front, 0.5mm wouldn't be so bad so long as it was here and there rather than a concerted hollow across the table though as Digit pointed out earlier there are some that have sunk due to the weight of the motor making it likely that this is what has happened with these three. There's a little voice saying go on, take the chance but it's being fairly drowned out by another one which is pointing out my abysmal track record in being lucky and telling me on that basis alone I should probably avoid it, save up a few more pennies and get something that I will have faith in. The problem is as I'm sure you will all agree, the pennies are getting a bit harder to find. On the upside, the wife might leave me. Every cloud and all that, eh?

I jest though; she's the best. She even said I wish I could use all your tools; I could make things. However, she's also the most accident prone person I have ever met so that was a damn short discussion. :)

The Xcalibre one I'd be wary of simply because I don't see the word 'induction' anywhere in the product description, but that's maybe just me. I have one brush-motor piece of woodworking equipment, and it's noisier than the others put together. ;-)
I do like the look of that Xcalibur though overall cost will be the deciding factor obviously. As far as I am aware though it does have an induction motor. I have a MB9020 P/T with a brush unit in it and while a very handy article, that thing is loud. One noisy b*gger like that is enough I think.

All the best,

Michael
 
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