TS Power

[wcndave]

I am considering the Xcalibur saw range based on advice of people here, and as it's a once ina lifetime purchase (well, i said that with my last TS however have learned and this will be the last...), i would like to get the 12" version.

Delivery to Italy is actually quite good, only £120.

However, it's 3hp, which is 2.25kw, and I have 3kw. But I see lots of larger devices losted on things like Axminster that say they require a certain number of amps. So I checked with Roy from Woodford.

He says 16amps, however that's nearly 4kw, which will be too much.

I am building a new workshop in about 50sq m and can put in 4.5kw. However I have never quite understood the comments about having a separate circuit for this and that, or having 16a circuits, when in UK i think it's 16kw = 64 amps... As you can tell, I am not a sparky, just remember that power = amps x voltage...

Any advice appreciated, as I really need to get my workshop build right from the start, and also to start saving for the right saw!!

Thanks

 

[Karl]

I've got the 12" 5hp Xcalibur saw, and it's a beast. Excellent saw, but the dust extraction needs working on - see my recent thread. Blade guarding is another weak point (search for "brown trouser moment" and you'll see what I mean!).

Mine is wired to a dedicated point, with a 30amp cartridge fuse.

Cheers

Karl

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

You can have a 16amp socket on a standard supply. A machine running 230v at 2.25w is only around 10amp. It will more likely pull less then this when at full speed. Anything electrical will only use what ever amps/watts it needs, you do not supply a product with watts or amps. In simple terms you give a product volts and that product takes the amps/watts it needs.

The issue with motors and alike is they need a large startup current. So when its first turned on it may pull 16amps/4kw for a split second. Thats why they say you need a 16amp socket. All this means for you is you need a circuit breaker in your CU thats rated 16amp of the correct type that supplies the TS.

I have my 2.2kw TS on a 13amp plug on the same ring main as all my other machines, but you need to make sure you have the correct breaker for this which is why they recommend a 16amp socket. My TS came with no plug at all as they recommended I use a 16amp socket.

 

[wcndave]

Thanks, what i am not clear on is why if 16 amps is standard, why we need a special breaker, and why need a 16amp breaker on a 13amp plug.

Sorry, its just me being really thick. If i have a 4.5 kw supply and i put a 16 amp fuse in the plug (not seen one in shops), will it work?

I woud guess the circuit breakers must be at least 16 amps otherwise i could never draw 4kw. I think i am missing something here

 

[The Wood Butcher]

4.5Kw = 20Amp supply.

If Italian electrics are the same as the rest of Europe the supply will go to what is called a consumer unit in England but what you will have in your workshop is more accurately called a distribution board. At the distribution board you fit either RCBs or MCBs, the modern version of fuses or "breakers" if you like. In Europe each outlet is commonly on its own MCB, whereas in the UK we usually use a ring topology, a 20Amp circuit with a limit of 13Amps per wall socket.

Because 13Amps is often on the limit of current draw with workshop machines, particularly at startup, we often fit specific 16Amp, or IEC 60639 "commando", sockets. These we wire directly to a 16 or 20Amp MCB in the consumer unit, the variation in MCB rating depending on the thickness of wire running to the socket because the MCB is there to protect the wire, an important point people often miss. Basically you don't want your fixed wiring bursting into flames in the wall... We also use slow trip MCBs, they are rated B,C or D depending on how quickly they break the circuit. This allows for the heavy draw of machinery starting, which drops once it gets up to speed.

On your distribution board there should be an MCB on the incomer, where the supply arrives to protect the board, as you don't want the total load to exceed your 20Amp supply. Each socket runs back to an MCB, for your table saw use the correct gauge of cable for the load and length of cable and have a 16Amp MCB. Use the smallest commando style plug and socket, which is rated for 16Amps, not the rubbish Italian wall plugs which I would be wary running 5Amps through.

Other than that, good luck and get a spark to do the job. I worked on a film shoot in Italy this summer and we were getting shocks off everything as we could never find a supply at any of the locations that was properly earthed...

 

[wcndave]

4.5Kw = 20Amp supply.

If Italian electrics are the same as the rest of Europe the supply will go to what is called a consumer unit in England but what you will have in your workshop is more accurately called a distribution board.

not having buit it, i guess i will need to ask for this to be installed...

At the distribution board you fit either RCBs or MCBs, the modern version of fuses or "breakers" if you like. In Europe each outlet is commonly on its own MCB, whereas in the UK we usually use a ring topology, a 20Amp circuit with a limit of 13Amps per wall socket.

out of interest, what limits this? Is it the fuse in the plug, or is there one in the socket? I don't recall seeing socket fuses. Here plugs, (in addition to having no earth), are not fused either. In fact they think we are mad for having fuses in all our plugs. I am happy to be the eccentric in this case ;-)

Because 13Amps is often on the limit of current draw with workshop machines, particularly at startup, we often fit specific 16Amp, or IEC 60639 "commando", sockets. These we wire directly to a 16 or 20Amp MCB in the consumer unit, the variation in MCB rating depending on the thickness of wire running to the socket because the MCB is there to protect the wire, an important point people often miss. Basically you don't want your fixed wiring bursting into flames in the wall... We also use slow trip MCBs, they are rated B,C or D depending on how quickly they break the circuit. This allows for the heavy draw of machinery starting, which drops once it gets up to speed.

On your distribution board there should be an MCB on the incomer, where the supply arrives to protect the board, as you don't want the total load to exceed your 20Amp supply. Each socket runs back to an MCB, for your table saw use the correct gauge of cable for the load and length of cable and have a 16Amp MCB. Use the smallest commando style plug and socket, which is rated for 16Amps, not the rubbish Italian wall plugs which I would be wary running 5Amps through.

Other than that, good luck and get a spark to do the job. I worked on a film shoot in Italy this summer and we were getting shocks off everything as we could never find a supply at any of the locations that was properly earthed...

So thanks for a very good summary there, really concise and helpful. So if i understand, you have 20amp circuit, protected with 20 fuse on incoming. Then i would make one of my outgoing a 16amp fuse using 16amp rated cabled running to a commando socket.

One thing that adds to the fun are the 16 variations on pin size, layout, and spread here, one piece of kit had a combo of 5 adaptors to get into a wall circuit. In the end i cut the plug off and custom fit each machine with the correct one for its socket. As i rearrange, my cables are getting shorter each year though.....

I hope to resolve all this with new shop, so need to get it right first time.

One other thing i note here is that where the power arrives at the house, we have a single switch, with two fuses, so I think they must be ring mains here too...

Thanks again!