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Trying linseed paint - £141.68 for 1 litre

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Beau

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Used to be an International paint called Ranch Paint. It was breathable and did my workshop doors for 15 years. Came to recoat them with the supposed replacement and it has trapped water in and caused the doors to rot.

Can see the value in finding a quality breathable paint.
 

ColeyS1

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Beau":11a37bad said:
Used to be an International paint called Ranch Paint. It was breathable and did my workshop doors for 15 years. Came to recoat them with the supposed replacement and it has trapped water in and caused the doors to rot.

Can see the value in finding a quality breathable paint.
So would still seeing the wood pores be a good thing then ? The sparky I made the door for should be coming out in the next few days. If I can find out the exact year he sold his house, I should be able to look up the invoice to see exactly how long it was outside in just primer. The majority of the time I don't get to see how joinery items I've made are holding up. Perhaps they've all rotted out and they've gone and found another joiner. Lol

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Beau

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"So would still seeing the wood pores be a good thing then ? "

Wouldn't like to say. I couldn't see the pores with the Ranch Paint but no idea if that meant it couldn't really breath just it was the best external paint I have used to date. Last window I did was with a 3 pack Dulux paint. Did it around 6-7 years ago and will have a look see how it's fairing today.
 

ColeyS1

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Just heard from the allback guy. He's 95% sure he knows the reason for the blotchyness. I dusted off and wiped down with meths to degrease the surface. Any type of solvent is apparently a BIG no no using linseed paint. Even though the meths had evaporated there's still small contaminants of it left causing the blotchyness. To salvage the sample window he recommends a good rubbing back,followed by a washing down with Linseed soap or mild soapy solution. He said it hammered into them on the allback course about white spirit, meths etc causing issues with the finish. Sounds like a dedicated brush for linseed only is also advisable.
I'll leave this to dry for a few days now and in the mean time get a few different wood samples ready so I can paint them when I redo the window.
First time I've known degreasing the surface of timber before painting to have a negative effect.
One thing he did say is being able to see the wood pores is only an aesthetic problem. More coats will finally cover them but it's not necessary from a durability point of view.
Cheers
Coley

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ColeyS1

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Just spoke to the sparky and the door was primed and fitted early 2003 and the house was sold 2009 "there was nothing wrong with it,must be good primer" he chuckled. Think he was trying to justify why it took so long to paint it [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH]


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Jacob

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ColeyS1":gfn6b5ns said:
Just heard from the allback guy. He's 95% sure he knows the reason for the blotchyness. I dusted off and wiped down with meths to degrease the surface. Any type of solvent is apparently a BIG no no using linseed paint. Even though the meths had evaporated there's still small contaminants of it left causing the blotchyness. To salvage the sample window he recommends a good rubbing back,followed by a washing down with Linseed soap or mild soapy solution. He said it hammered into them on the allback course about white spirit, meths etc causing issues with the finish. Sounds like a dedicated brush for linseed only is also advisable.
I'll leave this to dry for a few days now and in the mean time get a few different wood samples ready so I can paint them when I redo the window.
First time I've known degreasing the surface of timber before painting to have a negative effect.
One thing he did say is being able to see the wood pores is only an aesthetic problem. More coats will finally cover them but it's not necessary from a durability point of view.
Cheers
Coley

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Interesting. I hadn't encountered the meths/white spirit prob - more by luck than judgement!
I have washed down with sugar soap however and that causes no problems at all. If anything it makes the paint or oil take better to the surface
Where are you buying from Coley?
 

ColeyS1

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Oldhousestore.co.uk

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Jacob

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Beau":2nvu75d1 said:
Used to be an International paint called Ranch Paint. It was breathable and did my workshop doors for 15 years. Came to recoat them with the supposed replacement and it has trapped water in and caused the doors to rot.

Can see the value in finding a quality breathable paint.
I'm told that all paint is 'breathable' and 'microporous', unless you go to extremes with bitumen, gold leaf etc. The words are bandied about by sales people and have as much/little meaning as 'new, improved'
 

Rorschach

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Maybe try isopropyl alcohol as a cleaner instead, white spirit can leave a greasy residue and meths could be the same from the colour that they add. No residue at all with IPA.
 

ColeyS1

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Rorschach":15qk61ja said:
Maybe try isopropyl alcohol as a cleaner instead, white spirit can leave a greasy residue and meths could be the same from the colour that they add. No residue at all with IPA.
I'll try the sample with nothing and if i still have issues I'll give your suggestion ago. Thanks. It's like having to relearn how to paint again !

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Jacob

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ColeyS1":2t39t5bq said:
He just sent me the handbook for the paint https://drive.google.com/file/d/1K6xSvj ... p=drivesdk
I'll have a read through later. I've uploaded it to mydrive and will leave it there for a few days incase anyone else wants a look.

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Thanks for that. They are getting more products and info together compared to 10 years ago.
One detail I wouldn't agree - they recommend glazing sprigs
In my experience as a restorer, sprigs were never used in old joinery. Where you do find them they are often the cause of the glass failing - with a crack starting against the pin.
They are useful but only as a temporary holding, to be removed as soon as putty hard enough, then the pin holes made good.
With small panes even this is not needed. with exceptions such as exposed places with high winds, or in hot weather when the putty might droop;
I had a prob on a main road steep hill with new glazing near the road. Noise of HGVs going up vibrated the glass and on a hot day new putty would go thixotropic and panes drop out. But otherwise pins rarely needed
 

Beau

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Beau":2lccp08z said:
" Last window I did was with a 3 pack Dulux paint. Did it around 6-7 years ago and will have a look see how it's fairing today.

So this is the window and all still perfect but it darn well should be. Think it was a pack of three products. One being a preserver and presumably primer and gloss.

Sorry the pictures are terrible and the marks are just dirt.
 

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Jacob

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Beau":3cdeu0ct said:
Beau":3cdeu0ct said:
" Last window I did was with a 3 pack Dulux paint. Did it around 6-7 years ago and will have a look see how it's fairing today.

So this is the window and all still perfect but it darn well should be. Think it was a pack of three products. One being a preserver and presumably primer and gloss.

Sorry the pictures are terrible and the marks are just dirt.
Needs preservative because it won't be water tight.
Most modern finishes require pressurised preservative timber treatment. This is because they are not very good at keeping water out.
 

Beau

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Jacob":nxpeukkb said:
Beau":nxpeukkb said:
Beau":nxpeukkb said:
" Last window I did was with a 3 pack Dulux paint. Did it around 6-7 years ago and will have a look see how it's fairing today.

So this is the window and all still perfect but it darn well should be. Think it was a pack of three products. One being a preserver and presumably primer and gloss.

Sorry the pictures are terrible and the marks are just dirt.
Needs preservative because it won't be water tight.
Most modern finishes require pressurised preservative timber treatment. This is because they are not very good.

I treat all my external woodwork with a preserver anyway. Why wouldn't you? It's easy and it's cheap.
 

thick_mike

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Jacob":2e0nqma7 said:
Beau":2e0nqma7 said:
Used to be an International paint called Ranch Paint. It was breathable and did my workshop doors for 15 years. Came to recoat them with the supposed replacement and it has trapped water in and caused the doors to rot.

Can see the value in finding a quality breathable paint.
I'm told that all paint is 'breathable' and 'microporous', unless you go to extremes with bitumen, gold leaf etc. The words are bandied about by sales people and have as much/little meaning as 'new, improved'

You are correct, any finish you use will allow water through to some extent. I used to formulate car paint for OEM and refinish and we had to test water soak and humidity exposure. Despite them being very sophisticated 2 pack coatings baked at up to 130C they still absorbed moisture. Any coating on wood will allow some water to pass through.
 

Beau

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thick_mike":3ob95jh9 said:
Jacob":3ob95jh9 said:
Beau":3ob95jh9 said:
Used to be an International paint called Ranch Paint. It was breathable and did my workshop doors for 15 years. Came to recoat them with the supposed replacement and it has trapped water in and caused the doors to rot.

Can see the value in finding a quality breathable paint.
I'm told that all paint is 'breathable' and 'microporous', unless you go to extremes with bitumen, gold leaf etc. The words are bandied about by sales people and have as much/little meaning as 'new, improved'

You are correct, any finish you use will allow water through to some extent. I used to formulate car paint for OEM and refinish and we had to test water soak and humidity exposure. Despite them being very sophisticated 2 pack coatings baked at up to 130C they still absorbed moisture. Any coating on wood will allow some water to pass through.


Yes seems to be case just some are more microporous than others. Thought this was interesting, it's from ICI so bias but still worth a read

The term "microporous" is often applied to specialist paints and stains and describes a coating that acts as a barrier to liquid water, but allows water vapour to pass through. The implication being that there is something special about the coating that keeps rainwater out of the substrate, but lets moisture that has found its way into the substrate escape as a vapour. Although almost all coatings will act as a barrier to liquid water, it is not correct to imply that coatings can be made so that moisture vapour can only travel through them in one direction. Moisture vapour will be able to pass through a coating equally well in either direction: from places where there is more moisture, to places where there is less moisture. The rate at which moisture passes through a coating is controlled by the permeability of the coating, the moisture content gradient, the film thickness, and the temperature.

ICI Paints has avoided using the term "microporous" to describe its products, regarding it as a somewhat misleading sales gimmick, because nearly all paints and stains offer some protection against rainwater, and all paints and stains will to a greater or lesser extent allow moisture vapour to pass through them in either direction. Instead scientists at ICI prefer to speak in terms of appropriate levels of "moisture vapour permeability": for example on a timber substrate, too little can result in paint blistering or worse still wood rot can begin to occur, too much allows moisture to pass into and out of the timber too easily, leading to splitting and cracking of the wood. So it is not just a question of the more the better. Moisture vapour permeability is one of a number of important attributes that must be considered when formulating an exterior coating - others include: adhesion, cohesion, flexibility, mould resistance and photostability.

Microporosity is therefore not some miracle technology, it is an invented word that has been used to describe paints and stains that are usually quite high in moisture vapour permeability - sometimes excessively so. Often such wonder products are single paints said to do the whole job in one go. We believe that this approach is grossly over simplistic, and prefer to take a much more systematic approach to achieving lasting durability with coatings for exterior wood, particularly where redecoration is concerned. For example, each part of the Weathershield Exterior Gloss System is formulated to do a specific job, and has a carefully balanced set of properties, including a suitable level of moisture vapour permeability, working together they help to keep the moisture content of the wood below levels at which timber decay can become a problem.

The Basics

Water Vapour Permeability

"Microporous" - "Breathing" - "Permeable"

All paints can claim to be microporous.

What is more important than microporosity is the following properties:

Mechanical Properties - flexibility
Adhesion
Biological resistance
Chemical resistance
Resistance to degradation by sunlight.
Early shower/water resistance
Resistance to soiling/dirt pick-up.
Compatability with previous coatings and where appropriate glazing seals.
 

Bm101

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Could I ask a daft question or two please? I know the pros are in on this one and I'm just a diy/hobby/shed boy so I would really appreciate any advice.

I replaced most of the front bay three years ago. Hardwood (Keruing I was told but I'm not sure), I primed undercoated and glossed, at least a couple of coats of all wood faces before fitting for better or worse but intentions were good). The window gets full sunlight after about 2pm in good weather so is fairly exposed but not constantly. Was painted in a trade quality paint. Most likely dulux. I have enough experience that I can lay on paint well. Most of it is fine but the paint on the beading, the (existing) putty is cracking already.
I've read Jacob's advice previously and thought I'm too late to the party. I didn't realise I could paint over modern paint before reading this thread (so thanks Coley) . I also painted most of the other windows on the house at the same time though they were in far better condition. Bearing this in mind would people wait till a new revamp externally is due in maybe 3 or 4 years or would it be worth me getting prepared for a good period of weather next summer and trying to forestall any problems? I did a lot of work sanding back etc at the time and wish I'd known then but bearing in mind all that .... what would people suggest?
Wasn't a member of UKW at the time and hadn't really heard more than in passing of using traditional paints. Wish I'd known. :(
Link to the front window renovation pics to give an idea of how bad they were rather than anything else. Started off trying to replace the cills, in the end the entire externals got a bit of a makeover. Dont want to disrupt Coley's thread so have posted threads as an external link. Hope that's ok.
https://imgur.com/a/zfbV7
 

Jacob

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I'd just accept the inevitable - routine maintenance a little and often. Paint over defects - have a go with linseed by all means.
Any external paint job, whatever paint, needs a good going over within the first few years, to remedy any faults. If done often and soon enough, it could settle down and need less attention later.
 
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