Trimming lipping with hand tools

[Rattie]

I'm currently working on a small cabinet in oak veneered MDF with 8mm solid oak lipping on the cut surfaces. This lipping is joined onto the body using FF biscuits and glue.

Having trimmed the outer edge which I left over hanging using a bearing guided straight bit, I had to sand the lipping to get rid of slight imperfections in my milling. No worries there, and for the next version I'll set up a tall auxilliary fence on the router instead of using the bearing.

I was left wondering though, how a galoot would have approached the task with hand tools, bearing in mind that the veneer is less than 0.5mm thick. Is there a way to set up a combination plane (don't have one) to stop at a given level?

Just thought I'd ask people what they'd do.

Martyn

 

[ike]

Hi Martyn

I made a flush door and oversized the lipping by 1mm (.5mm per side) to allow for slight uneveness in the thickness of the door. I skew-planed the lipping veerry carefully to dead flush using a (220) block plane. I kept the edge of the iron as close as possible to the edge of the veneer. It was very simple and quick with no setups, just a steady hand.

Ike

 

[Chris Knight]

Martyn,

I use a 5 1/2 benchplane as here in the 3rd picture down:-
http://woodgen.com/woodwork/ruth_bookcase/ruth2.htm

It is easy enough if you are careful. The long sole of the plane helps register the tool perfectly flat on the veneer.

 

[ike]

Flatter than my door then!. Not having many clamps, I'd pinned the ply panels down with headless pins. So it didn't end up a dead flat surface, which is why I had to use a block plane instead - following the waves, man! :roll:

 

[Rattie]

Thanks for the thoughts, any more?

Seems like the consensus is plane it very carefully. I do have to wonder if one could assemble a setup where the edge of a bench plane runs on some additional veneer, while the side runs along a fence block. So a bit like a shooting board assembled onto the workpiece.

Sounds like time to experiment.

Martyn

 

[Chris Knight]

Martyn,
I'm having trouble picturing that. However, it isn't difficult, just needs patience. As I am in constant need of that commodity ( or is it rocking horse manure?) it must be a doddle for normal folk!

 

[Steve Maskery]

Martyn,
I've just done a load of lipping like this, 400 foot of it! I started out using a block plane veerry carefully, but, as you rightly point out, 0.5mm veneer is not very forgiving. It only takes one little slip, lapse of concentration and.....
It was also very slow. So I set my router up with an offset base, lifting it above the overhanging lipping, and used the bottom of the router bit to trim to a hair above the surface. I then scraped it down with a nice sharp scraper (seen the video on the FWW site?), which also meant I could go with the grain. It was quicker and much more successful.
How would I do this with hand tools? I wouldn't.
Cheers
Steve

 

[Philly]

Just finished doing the same on my chest of drawers-a sharp scraper is the safest way!
(a belt sander the quickest/but a bit dangerous! :lol: )
cheers
Philly

 

[Shady]

A razor sharp plane (and I'm talking 'expert level' sharpness here), skewed across the work so that the back half registers on the veneer to give me the registration. It's been pre checked on scrap... Once I've taken a couple of swipes to get close, I can feel whether the veneer's forgiving or not. If it is, plane until it lifts some veneer. At between 1 and 2 thou, a half mil veneer is relatively 'huge and crude'.

If it ain't forgiving, I plane the lipping until close, then switch to a scraper.

No way would I do this with 'tailed tools'. Unless you have production standard kit (eg about 4 grand's worth), it will be less controllable, juddering, and uncontrollable.

This is exactly where the finesse and adjustability of hand tools scores - provided you aren't in a 'mega-production' mode. I've just carried exactly this operation out on pine lipping on ply drawer sides, and thoroughly enjoyed the ease and 'not scarily agressive' nature of the process...

 

[Midnight]

best answer I can think of.... build it from solid....

 

[Shady]

Jeez:

less controllable, juddering, and uncontrollable.

You can tell I was on the Stella tonight.... Sorry folks...

 

[Rattie]

OK, lets try a picture. Albeit not a great one:-



In this orientation, you'd put your bench plane upright, keeping the side face against the big yellow block, so that the guide veneer keeps the non blade bit of the sole off the work piece veneer, hence stopping the blade from taking more stock off the lipping than desired. The plane blade would have to protrude from the sole the same amount as the thickness of the guide veneer in order to take off the right amount.

I know it's a router mentality idea, but heh might work :wink:

Martyn

 

[Chris Knight]

Martyn,

It seems to be overcomplicating a simple task. I don't find the operation difficult the sightest - just a bit time consuming. I initially use the plane set fairly coarse and then switch to a fine setting. That way it doesn't matter if I plane the veneer a bit - the couple of thou I end up taking off the veneer isn't going to hurt even a .5mm veneer.

 

[Alf]

Wot Chris said. You see, with a router, if it goes pear-shaped it tends to do so in a major, unrescuable way, which is why you need lots of guides/jigs etc so it doesn't have a chance. With a plane taking wafer-thin shavings you can stop in plenty of time before it all goes belly up. That's the main reason I like them... Watch the shavings and you'll see when you've stopped planing only the lipping - the shavings tell all. </gypsy fourtune teller> Like Shady, minus the Stella :wink: , I'd avoid doing this with tailed demons like the plague. I can make mistakes enough without their dubious assistance. :roll:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Shady]

Agreed Alf: the only potential 'Ohh s****t' with a properly used plane is wobble if you're planing directly 'in-line' along the lipping: if unlucky/not concentrating, you can a) dig a long grooved chunk out of the veneer, or b) plane in the opposite non-right angled way and end up with a lipping that unintentionally tapers to a thinner edge than the thickness of the veneered piece. Both are solved by skewing the plane so that the trailing part of the body rests on the veneered surface.. But both occur with considerably more chance to back off than when spinning carbide's doing the same thing at 20,000 rpm...

 

[Rattie]

Overcomplicate? But of course. If it ain't broke, for heaven's sake optimise it!

Point taken though, with enough experience, dexterity and patience it is a simple matter to do with a well set up plane. Much to my embarassment I'm missing a couple of those prerequisites and for now I'll stick with the tailed demons, having designed a spiffy jig for this purpose to go on the router. I'll take some pics for the non-galoot folk once I have it up and running.

Cheers all and thanks for the advice, I may yet get a decent plane and work on the patience.

Martyn

 

[Alf]

Shady, yeah, the skewing makes all the difference. I have a feeling it'd be the one thing I'd forget to mention if I was trying how to describe how to do this though. :roll:

Martyn, it's not difficult, really it isn't. It's not skill so much as patience that's required. And even then you don't need that much of that. The only real danger is enjoying yourself so much taking off whispy shavings that you keep going beyond the point you should have... Aaargh, two minutes face to face and I'd convert you, but it's much more difficult via the written word.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Philly]

Alf,
I have to agree with you-2 minute demonstration and it's crystal clear. 2000 words on the internet and still confused! (ish)
I see Woodcentral are going to start putting video clips on their site on popular subjects-Charley any chance of this happening here? Hows your bandwidth?
regards
Philly

 

[Alf]

As I'd successfully hauled this off topic into broadband , I've split the topic (exciting - never done that before) and put the broadband stuff here instead. I now return you to your normal programming.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Noel]

Feeling better then, Alf?...............

Noel