Trimming ends help

[HLA91]

Hi all,

I admit my sawing isn’t the best, but today I actually realised that I have a slight lean to the right which no matter how hard I try I just couldn’t shift.
My wife has told me to just keep practising but I had an issue where I needed to shave 1mm off the end of a piece of 2x2 but I ended up shaving 1mm where I first started my cut but by the bottom I trimmed 2mm, not ideal.
Am I right in thinking that a block plane would have been the right tool for the job to take that 1mm off? I am on about across the grain as well if that makes a difference with the tool.

Thanks.

H




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[marcros]

what sized pieces are you cutting? a shooting board would be my preferred method I think.

 

[MikeG.]

101 ways of skinning this particular cat.

Here's one of them: cut all round with a marking knife and a square, then pare back to the marks (some people call these knife walls) with a sharp chisel, working in from each face in turn, only going approximately half way across the end from each face.

Assuming you want to work only with handtools, you could do this using a tenon saw, any plane (a block plane wouldn't be my choice), a knife and chisel as I described, a hand saw, a rasp/ file, or almost any cutting tool you own.

Then, work on your sawing. Again, this is about triangles, working in from each face (ie turning often), and never cutting down front and back at the same time. I did a diagram a while back. Let me see if I can find it.....

Here you go:

 

[Jacob]

Sawing 1mm off the end of a 2x2" would be extremely difficult.
I'd mark it all round, then block plane (or any plane) a bevel down to the marks, carefully working inwards and across - avoiding working off the edge and spelching - especially from the corners.
Then when you've got a bevel all round like a little roof then it's easy to take out the middle with a plane (and a shooting board if you have one , but not essential).

 

[HLA91]

Wow, a quick shower and already 2 replies.

what sized pieces are you cutting? a shooting board would be my preferred method I think.

I had to google “shooting board” and I think I understand how they work looking at photos.
I’ve hopefully attached a photo showing where my issue actually started to become noticeable and annoying.

The middle pieces needed 1mm trimmed off to fit in the frame for extra support but I ended up taking too much off.

So with a shooting board I would line up my wood and run the plane (shallow?) sideways to trim the required amount of slithers at a time?


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[Jacob]

2" too thick for a shooting board. They are for thin stuff, typically drawer or box sides, etc.
Though you could use one for the waste if you already have it accurately down to the line as I described above.

PS I'd guess your problem is more procedural than anything else:
To cut 5 same length pieces; mark the measurement on a board (AKA a "rod"), stack the 5 pieces over the marks (or 1,2,3 at a time etc) and mark one face with a set square. Then square each piece round. Then cut to the lines. Any error should be the same on each piece and hence not noticeable.
If you mark each one individually there will be variations!

 

[MikeG.]

Sawing 1mm off the end of a 2x2" would be extremely difficult.
I'd mark it all round, then block plane (or any plane) a bevel down to the marks, carefully working inwards and across - avoiding working off the edge and spelching - especially from the corners.
Then when you've got a bevel all round like a little roof then it's easy to take out the middle with a plane (and a shooting board if you have one , but not essential).

It's actually relatively easy, using a block of bigger section than the workpiece clamped onto a benchhook. The workpiece is held tight to the block and the benchhook by hand, and you just cut down through the gap.

 

[Tasky]

2" too thick for a shooting board.

Could you not just shoot half of one end, then rotate the piece round?
Or use a wider-bladed plane, such as a 4½?

 

[HLA91]

By the sounds of it I need to do a few things:

• Improve my sawing technique
• Invest in a Block Plane
• Construct a shooting board
• Possibly sharpen my saw I don't think it's particularly sharp, that probably isn't helping

I have to make another copy of that frame this weekend (weather permitting) so I will try a different sawing technique and see how I get on. Buying a Plane is going to have to wait until next month, Stanley 110 Block Plane are they any good?

 

[custard]

Shooting the end of a 2" board is theoretically possible, but in practise it's pretty tricky. End grain is much tougher than long grain, so you have to bully your way through the cut. Your grip on the plane body when shooting isn't the best, and with end grain you don't get that natural mechanical tendency for the plane to be pulled into the cut. Taken all that together it needs a fair bit of practise and careful plane set-up to get it right; not impossible, but don't get despondent if it doesn't work out first time around.

On a bigger board I prefer to plane end grain with a normal bench plane. Again, it's not that easy, but at least you can get a decent grip on the tool.

Learning to use a hand plane properly, and across a wide range of applications, is harder than is generally realised. It's another good reason why you don't want loads of different bench planes, because you'll never build up much expertise with any of them. You should aim to have the skill, and for your plane to be sufficiently fettled, so that you can take proper full length and full width shavings on end grain, like this,

At first that'll seem impossible, you'll just keep bouncing out of the cut, and consequently the end of the workpiece will show loads of small planing facets. Early in your woodworking career it's worth getting a rough sawn board and practise bringing it to flat, true and square on all six sides using only hand tools. To get the ends of the boards accurate you'll need to master end grain planing to a decent standard.

Is a block plane the solution?

Well, I know some very skilled cabinet makers who don't own a block plane. Personally I do find them useful, but only in fairly specialised circumstances. They're great for trimming down stringing and inlay, and for levelling and chamfering the ends of legs. Whenever I make a dining table with breadboard ends I give the client the option of flushing down the breadboard ends after the table has settled in the client's home, a block plane is very useful for that job.

But the problem with block planes is that there are loads of terrible quality used ones in circulation. Block planes have always been the subject of vicious price competition, and even reputable manufacturers have sometimes let themselves down badly in this race to the bottom. So if you do buy one choose carefully, because there are plenty out there that are little better than paperweights.

Good luck!

 

[Bod]

If your cutting, from top to bottom is off line, adjust the wood so the line is where the saw will go.
If your cutting left to right is off line, then stand slightly to the side of the line.
Get the saw properly sharpened and set.
If you are consistently unable to work to the line, then altering the saw set to compensate could be a last resort.
Sharp saw and practise, will cure most ills.

Bod

 

[Jacob]

If you were to use a shooting board or similar set up it might be best to clamp the components and plane all the ends together as one.

 

[ED65]

By the sounds of it I need to do a few things:

• Improve my sawing technique
• Invest in a Block Plane
• Construct a shooting board
• Possibly sharpen my saw I don't think it's particularly sharp, that probably isn't helping

Yes.
Not necessarily.
Yes.
Yes if it needs it, assuming it's not a hardpoint saw.

I use the edge of my bench hook as a rudimentary shooting board (if you don't have a bench hook definitely make one of those) but a dedicated shooting board is better fit for purpose and can be hung on the wall when not in use so it isn't in the way.

Stanley 110 Block Plane are they any good?

Short answer: no. They're not bad planes per se, just not well suited here; and if you buy one of current production you run the gauntlet of Stanley's QC, which is widely acknowledged to be dreadful.

Given the choice you want a model with a lateral-adjustment lever and an adjustable mouth because these features give you the most versatility and you don't pay much of a premium for them. Oh and if you're buying it specifically for end-grain work you want a low-angle block plane, not standard-angle. A low-angle block plane is the most versatile type also.

Buying vintage, get an old standby (in practice this means Stanley or Record >95% of the time) at a car boot, from Gumtree, Tooltique etc. If buying new I recommend trying a Faithfull as they make some of the best cheaper planes. None of these options, including any postage, should cost anything close to a new 110 with free P&P.

This is IF you get a block plane. I personally really like them and would not choose to be without my pair, but others don't have even one and don't feel the lack and you can plane end grain perfectly well with a bench plane in most cases. To illustrate the point possibly the most common plane used in a shooting board is a 5 where its mass is helpful, but regardless of the size it's almost always a bench plane these days. What's needed is a plane that has an iron honed straight across or nearly so that is truly sharp, and set for a light or very light cut.

 

[HLA91]

I recommend trying a Faithfull as they make some of the best cheaper planes. None of these option, including postage, should cost anything close to a new 110

Your right about the faithful price. Found a Faithful No60.1/2 for the same price as a 110.

I made a bench hook already so I will give it a bash as a stopgap shooting board until I can make one of them.

The saw i was using is a 10” Tenon I picked up from eBay in reasonable condition but on closer inspection it’s not very sharp. I have a place in Usk that have said they will sharpen it so I’ll be packing it off to them this weekend.


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[ED65]

I didn't realise the price was so close, assumed the 110 would be around the £30 mark and the Faithfull closer to 20.

Best of luck with the saw sharpen, numerous forum reports of commercial saw sharpening are not encouraging :-(

If you're reasonably handy (and your eyesight is up to it!) saw sharpening isn't too hard a skill to acquire, although the files needed can be!

 

[HLA91]

I didn't realise the price was so close, assumed the 110 would be around the £30 mark and the Faithfull closer to 20.

£19.00 for a Faithful (@TradingDepot.co.uk) and £23.65 for a Stanley 110(@TradingDepot.co.uk) , so looks like you've saved me money.

Best of luck with the saw sharpen, numerous forum reports of commercial saw sharpening are not encouraging :-(

Well fingers crossed, it's Beverstock Ltd in Cwmbran.

If you're reasonably handy (and your eyesight is up to it!) saw sharpening isn't too hard a skill to acquire, although the files needed can be!

Hmm, I'm not reasonably handy, and my eyesight is poor even with my glasses on.

 

[Tasky]

saw sharpening isn't too hard a skill to acquire, although the files needed can be!

Workshop Heaven have a load of Bahco ones, which covered my little 15tpi dovetailey thing right up to my bigger 22" handsaws.

 

[clanger]

Are you sure that the problem is not your sawing technique. When I first started college, we spent an hour being taught how to saw, and then many more hours practising.

Do you hold the saw lightly, and keep your index finger straight. The index finger is important, as it helps to keep your wrist from twisting.

Also, is your saw nice and shiny? This is very useful as you can use the reflection of your work to check that you are square and not twisting left or right.

If I get a chance at the weekend, I'll try and take phots to demonstrate

HTH

Chris

 

[ED65]

£19.00 for a Faithful (@TradingDepot.co.uk) and £23.65 for a Stanley 110(@TradingDepot.co.uk) , so looks like you've saved me money.

Good prices for both compared to full retail. Is there post on top of that? If there is and you haven't ordered already the Faithfull is on Amazon and qualifies for free delivery.

If you're reasonably handy (and your eyesight is up to it!) saw sharpening isn't too hard a skill to acquire, although the files needed can be!

Hmm, I'm not reasonably handy, and my eyesight is poor even with my glasses on.

Best start with a rip saw with nice big teeth then Seriously though that can be a good place to start if you'd like to give it a whirl.

 

[dzj]

Clamp the offending piece between two 2x2 offcuts and plane away the extra millimeter.
You avoid tearout this way and also have a larger reference surface.
Some people claim that soaking the endgrain with alcohol or mineral spirit before planing helps.

A sharp blade on a table saw and a crosscut sled makes short work of such problems, though.