travellers injunction, starting a book.

[Digit]

"Races" themselves are a racist concept

Jacob, on an archaeology forum we are discussing the latest evidence supporting Neandertal X HSS interbreeding and Out of Africa theory. Please explain how we might do this without reference to 'race' please?
I am an Ashkenazi, how would you define me, (careful! :lol: ) without mentioning your forbidden word?

Roy.

 

[Max Power]

Gordon you may be astonished to learn that there are poor gypsy/travellers as well as wealthy ones and some have very successful businesses but sounds as though you prefer to stereotype everyone. :evil: Bet all the black people youve met have been muggers and all the gay people have had aids :roll:

 

[Digit]

My father lived with both groups for some years between the two world wars and had great respect and liking for them, and they were always welcome at our door.
Dad was no angel! Trust me! and he described them as 'light fingered!'

Roy.

 

[gus3049]

Gordon you may be astonished to learn that there are poor gypsy/travellers as well as wealthy ones and some have very successful businesses but sounds as though you prefer to stereotype everyone. :evil: Bet all the black people youve met have been muggers and all the gay people have had aids :roll:

Oh dear oh dear.

There are some boring people out there aren't there. It sounds as though you think that anyone who doesn't agree with you will be a total .. I guess it takes one to know one.

 

[Anonymous]

the experience i have of travellers is friend of the family saying no to having their drive done, then turning up from work to their drive being tarmacced and a bill for 15 grand in the letterbox, when they refused to pay their windows got smashed in, they called the police who didn't want to know, then they were threatened with the kidnap of their children, they duly paid up!! so forgive me for not liking them.

 

[Jacob]

"Races" themselves are a racist concept

Jacob, on an archaeology forum we are discussing the latest evidence supporting Neandertal X HSS interbreeding and Out of Africa theory. Please explain how we might do this without reference to 'race' please?
I am an Ashkenazi, how would you define me, (careful! :lol: ) without mentioning your forbidden word?

Roy.

Where does race fit your scheme of things?
Homo Sapiens is a species, Neanderthal may have been a sub species or separate species hence Homo sapiens neanderthalensis or Homo neanderthalensis.
You decribe/define yourself as Ashkenazi which means a lot in terms of history, religion and culture , but what has race got to do with that? Nothing at all unless your are a racist and wish to see things in racist terms.
In a similar way my history is probably anglo-saxon/irish with various christian connections (not a lot in the last 2 generations!) but where's the race in that?

 

[MIGNAL]

Crikey! Cops must be really scared of them, especially if they can't be done for threatening to kidnap children.
I'm surprised they aren't going into Dale Farm armed with a Nuclear bomb!

 

[Digit]

Very adroit reply Jacob, but that is a dodge, an an attempt to avoid a word that you dislike. 'The NA Indians are a different race to the Aboriginie,' and I would love to see how you would word that.
The ridiculous attempts at 'sanitising' the language of certain words is pathetic. A close friend of mine is a homosexual, there are times when he is gay and times when he is dismal.
Ashkenazim have a separate ethnic identity, ie you so are scared to say 'race' that you sanitise it as 'Ethnic.'
In my time people have gone from 'Queers', to 'Homos' to Gay, quite why you should think that a re-branding excercise will change people's views is a mystery to me.

From Dictionay.com

being a member of an ethnic group, especially of a group that is a minority within a larger society: ethnic Chinese in San Francisco.

or as I would phrase it, being a member of a racial group, especially of a group that is a minority within a larger society: Chinese people in San Francisco.


so I'm a racist?

Roy.

 

[RogerS]

Next to us is a farm and sadly the farmer has been in a hospice for quite a while leaving his wife to look after the farm. One day last year, some travellers rolled up and asked her if she had any scrap. She said 'No' to which the aggressive reply was 'What? No fu*king scrap? This is a farm. You must have some fu*king scrap somewhere" and other words in a similar vein. Naturally she got very very upset and they finally left. In some distress, she rang her brother who runs another farm not too far away and explained what had happened. Gave a description of the travellers and what vehicle they were driving. Her brother rounded up a few friends and farmhands and drove out in a couple of Land Rover's 'tooled-up', as they say. Tracked the travellers down to a local pub. Blocked the exit and waited for the travellers to come out. Got out of their Land Rovers, had some not so gentle words and some even less gentle physical contact with the travellers, made sure that their shotguns were highly visible and left the travellers in no uncertain terms thaf if they showed up again ......travellers complained to the police. Police came round to interview the brother etc but they all were playing cards with the locals in the pub all day. travellers have never been back.

And last year the Govt published a website where you could look up the crime demographics and then drill down by type of crime etc. Naturally I looked up Worcestershire. Sure enough there was a hotspot centred on Worcester and other towns but to my surprise there were three distinct hotspots out in the more rural part of the county. I asked a friend of mine who is an ex-police sergeant if he had any suggestions why these hotspots were there. He gave a wry smile and explained that at the centre of each hotspot was a traveller camp.

I am sure that there are some decent travellers. I've not met one yet...only travellers.

 

[Digit]

My dealings have been mixed Rog. For some time a local spot along the river was used each year for a short period.
We hadn't been here long when one chap turned up at our back door with a 5 gallon container and asked if I could let him have some water.
I explained that his container wouldn't fit under the kitchen tap and showed him where the outside tap was.
He filled up, thanked me and left, others he had been to had seen him off.
He returned the following day with the same request, I told him to help his self.
The following day he was back again!
I told him that there was no need to keep asking, just help himself, which he did for a couple of weeks before vanishing, he's welcome anytime.
On the other hand....I always had a number of old domestic appliances laying around and was a prime target for, 'got any scrap?' which i was glad to get rid of, till they started removing the heavy stuff and leaving ne with the mess.
I informed them, take all or nothing. So they took the lot.
Then I found the stuff they didn't want dumped at their site by the river!
After that I said, no more. Since then the council have sealed the site entrance.
Apart from the mess they were no problem, if they had played fair the site would probably still be available.
Crapping in your own nest comes to mind.

Roy.

 

[Jacob]

.........
so I'm a racist?

Roy.

If you define people by the term then yes.
Ethnic group as minority having some sort of common heritage/culture/religion within a majority, makes sense and generally isn't controversial.
But to call such a group a "race" traditionally used to imply that the group were different in more fundamental ways, such that the ethnic group might be different genetically or physiologically. But they don't, although there are variations differently distributed of course. Basically there is one human "race" but with any number of groups, ethnic or otherwise, which don't have clear boundaries and are not fixed.

This thread is pretty unpleasant and is being filled with dubious racist anecdotes. I've never suggested this in the past but if I was a mod I'd delete it completely.

 

[Digit]

But to call such a group a "race" traditionally used to imply that the group were different in more fundamental ways,

As with my comment vis-a-vis NA Indians/Aboriginies, and watching you jump through hoops trying to avoid using a word simply because

you

attach negativity to it is farcial.

If you define people by the term then yes

So now answer my question about NA Indians/Aborigine. Also then if I choose to define you as a 'Loony lefty' you would not object 'cos you are suggesting that people may attach their own personal definitions to any given word.
I do not use 'race' in an insulting manner therefore you should not judge me by your own narrow prejudices.

Roy.

 

[RogerS]

.....anecdotes....

Might be worth you checking up on what this word actually means, Jacob. But I'll save you the trouble...An anecdote is an interesting story about a real incident or person.

 

[doorframe]

Regarding helping themselves to scrap....

Our bin men come every Wednesday around midday, so every Wednesday morning the white transits come round first. About 5 yrs ago I ripped out the bathrooms and all the old imperial pipework, the boiler, rads, and copper cylinder. I had a skip as I also took down a few walls. I knew the 'gentlemen' :wink: would make a mess if i put the metal in the skip so left it next to it. Like clockwork, on Wednesday morning they arrived. NO knock on the door. Just helped themselves. We watched from the kitchen window. The last thing to go in the van was the cylinder. They just did not have any room for it! Finally they tried to slide it over the top of all the rest of their haul... tight to the roof. Asd they swung it up all the black sludge gushed out the top (now the bottom), completely covering one of them from head to toe. He immediately dropped it and it landed on his mates foot.

It was the funniest thing I have ever seen!

Roy

 

[Allylearm]

UK law is an ass, until we have the balls to protect victims rights and not the perpetrators this country may be a lot better in dealing with squatters. When they are at it they should stop legal aid and employ public defenders or no win no fee to present lawyers firms, would save a fortune in the guilty pleading innocence and wasting court time and make a lot of would be MP's second jobs redundant as QC and the like.

 

[Max Power]

Well theres a first, Ive finally found something in common with Jacob :shock:
The amount of generalizations and half truths in this thread is perturbing
Every ethnic group has its good and bad people, I've had bad experiences in business with Asians Coloured and Jewish people but mainly "whites" at the same time I've had far far more positive experiences with all groups
On a positive side none of you have been bemoaning the current price of gas yet (as happened on another forum ) :twisted:

 

[Digit]

Seeing as 'whites' out number the other groups there's no surprise there Alan.

Roy.

 

[Anonymous]

Well theres a first, Ive finally found something in common with Jacob :shock:
The amount of generalizations and half truths in this thread is perturbing
Every ethnic group has its good and bad people, I've had bad experiences in business with Asians Coloured and Jewish people but mainly "whites" at the same time I've had far far more positive experiences with all groups
On a positive side none of you have been bemoaning the current price of gas yet (as happened on another forum ) :twisted:

Apparently using the term 'coloured' is deemed highly offensive!!

 

[RogerS]

It's not so much the usage more the intention. I can be caught out making feeble bad taste jokes just like anybody else!

I seem to remember you banging on about racist jokes, Jacob, on another thread. So it's OK then for you to make a feeble bad taste joke and it's not racist but for others to make similar jokes then it is? Perhaps you could explain the difference?

Still waiting for an answer, Jacob, or perhaps because now you've been found out (again) it explains the reason why you want the thread deleted.

 

[devonwoody]

So you lot of pirates, what odds apart from evens?