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profchris

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Noggsy":1ri2h4sj said:
Stunning work Derek. My breath’s a bit baited here waiting for the WIP.

That reminds me of a funny incident from a couple of years ago...we had a lot of friends round with their kids for a birthday, or BBQ or something. The kids ended up in our bedroom (not allowed) and one of the Dads, a lovely and very mild-mannered engineer, walked in after them to clear them out. My wife (also lovely, mild-mannered and ginger) then spoke to our friend who said; “I took your whip off the kids”. My wife stuttered, spluttered and turned a shade of crimson only usually seen in beetroot and then came to find me. I was a bit confused until we went to look at the room together and saw her crochet on the bed. I explained that he may have actually said ‘WIP’ (which he later confirmed) and after three or four hours she calmed down enough to speak again :shock:

So the whip was still in its usual drawer? What a relief!
 

MikeG.

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I think I'm seeing a scarf:

at5G3Xq.jpg
 

Sheffield Tony

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I would guess my first idea - rip off the top inch of the apron, crosscut the rest to create the drawer front then glue the apron pieces back together could be done with joins that would escape the attention of >90% of observers.

But I'm drifting towards the veneer idea; slice off a veneer, saw out the drawer hole in the rail and clean up, glue the veneer back on. Then working from the back, cut around the drawer hole with a sharp knife to release the drawer front veneer, glue onto a similar bit of wood, plane the substrate down to the edges of the veneer.
 

Yojevol

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Sheffield Tony":3brkdjek said:
I would guess my first idea - rip off the top inch of the apron, crosscut the rest to create the drawer front then glue the apron pieces back together could be done with joins that would escape the attention of >90% of observers.

But I'm drifting towards the veneer idea; slice off a veneer, saw out the drawer hole in the rail and clean up, glue the veneer back on. Then working from the back, cut around the drawer hole with a sharp knife to release the drawer front veneer, glue onto a similar bit of wood, plane the substrate down to the edges of the veneer.
I would stick with your first solution Tony. I was thinking along these lines in my first comment. To develop the process:-
1. Rip off top of the apron and clean up sawn edges.
2. Cut drawer front out of the lower apron using Jap saw for minimum loss.
3. Clean up the cross cuts.
4. Adjust the relative positions of the now drawer front and the two apron bits to get best possible grain match and plane off so they all match height wise.
5. Adjust the relative positions of the above 3 bits and the apron top to get best grain match.
6. Glue the apron bits back together.

Any takers?
Brian
 

woodbloke66

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Sheffield Tony":292jwih5 said:
But I'm drifting towards the veneer idea; slice off a veneer, saw out the drawer hole in the rail and clean up, glue the veneer back on. Then working from the back, cut around the drawer hole with a sharp knife to release the drawer front veneer, glue onto a similar bit of wood, plane the substrate down to the edges of the veneer.
That would still leave you with a 'shadow gap' once the knife cut was cleaned up. There's almost no gap in Derek's drawer but veneering is along the right lines. It can be done to leave a barely perceptible gap like Derek's...but how? :lol: - Rob
 

Sheffield Tony

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I can't say I like the idea of veneer anyway, if you want invisible no scope for any edge treatment on the corners of the drawer or the apron, has to be a sharp 90 degree corner. Very exposed end grain of veneer on the ends of the drawers - any normal use and it will soon be damaged, certainly in my house :roll:
 

Rob_Mc

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My guess on the drawer / apron construction would be to rip off the top inch or so of the front apron above the drawer. The drawer front could then be cut out of the centre of the lower section of the cut front apron.

That only leaves the problem of dealing with the kerf gap either side of the drawer when the front apron is reglued. Assuming a thin kerf saw is used the gap would be small but visible. This gap could be removed when regluing the apron back together by moving the material either side of the drawer opening inboard towards the vertical centreline of the apron thus reducing the size of the draw opening. The grain pattern is such that this small disruption in the grain flow is not detectable unless viewed up very closely.

With the apron opening now created at a slightly smaller size then the drawer front, the drawer could be constructed as standard and 'piston' fitted to the opening.
 

Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)

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Somehow this area was forgotten, and of course it is important.

All surfaces were hand planed, and then finished in de-waxed Ubeaut Hard Shellac. This concentrated and thinned with denatured alcohol/methylated spirits.

28a.jpg


This finish allows the figure to come through and, unlike an oil, does not darken the already dark Jarrah (which is what I wanted to avoid).

The top was, in addition, sanded with a ROS to 400 grit. Jarrah is an open-grain timber and the sanded Shellac doubled as a grain-filler, leaving a smoothed surface.

The next step was to rub in (and off) a water-based poly, from General Finishes, which does not darken or yellow with age. I rub thin coats on with microfibre cloths and then denib with 400 grit grey mesh ...

Finishes.jpg


The final step is to wax (the top) with Howards Wax-N-Feed, which is a mix of beeswax and carnauba wax.

41-Wz65-Yb-QSL-AC-SY400.jpg


This produces a very soft, warm and natural finish.

4a.jpg


Regards from Perth

Derek
 

John Brown

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I think MikeG had it almost right. Rip off the top of the apron. Crosscut the drawer front out of the bottom apron section, at a slight angle, so now you can glue the top and bottom apron sections back together, and you have a drawer front that is ever so slightly wedge shaped on the two sides. Now you somehow(??) fix the drawer front in place, where it ends up slightly behind the front surface of the apron, and then you plane the whole arrangement together, until the face of the drawer front and the apron are flush.
You might have to also angle the rip cut when you take the top section of the apron off - but I'm not sure why.
 

Sheffield Tony

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Agreed a slight "flare" on the drawer front would help. But we can see pictures of the drawer, and there doesn't look to me to be an appreciable angle on the ends of the front, it looks pretty square.

woodbloke66":3nyk2cx5 said:
Sheffield Tony":3nyk2cx5 said:
But I'm drifting towards the veneer idea; slice off a veneer, saw out the drawer hole in the rail and clean up, glue the veneer back on. Then working from the back, cut around the drawer hole with a sharp knife to release the drawer front veneer, glue onto a similar bit of wood, plane the substrate down to the edges of the veneer.
That would still leave you with a 'shadow gap' once the knife cut was cleaned up. There's almost no gap in Derek's drawer but veneering is along the right lines. It can be done to leave a barely perceptible gap like Derek's...but how? :lol: - Rob

Ok then, take a thin veneer off the rail, make the rail with what's left, the drawer with another piece, and carefully cut the matching piece of veneer for the drawer front, hoping that the grain pattern doesn't change too much in the thickness of the veneer. Quartersawn stock would help, but I guess here there's a choice of two pieces to work with ! I think I see some slight discontinuities at the right side of the drawer. I think I can convince myself that the front of the drawer looks to have a veneer on it ?

Aside: I have often wondered, when fishing around with a thin steel ruler through the gap above a drawer to try and dislodge the item inside that is sticking up and preventing the door from opening - why not fix a ramp shaped bit of wood to the back of the rail above the drawer, so anything sticking up is pushed back down in to the drawer, allowing it to open easily ?
 

Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)

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8a.jpg



It was my intention from the outset to hide the drawer as best as possible. This required that the drawer not have a pull or handle visible on the outside. To achieve this end, the drawer would need to be opened from the underside.

Issue: Opening from the underside meant that the drawer would need to rest in a case which was open from below. Without a case bottom (i.e. drawer blades) on which the drawer could rest, the common method for a drawer would be a form of side hang.

There are two methods for a side hung drawer that I know of, and I dislike both of them intensely! Partly because they require thick drawer sides, which lack aesthetic appeal for me.

The first is a wooden slide (ugh!) which requires grooving the outside of the drawer sides ...

image.jpg


The second method involves a metal slide (double ugh!!), which is ugly and belongs in a kitchen ...

51FP+VVATBL._AC_SX466_.jpg


In the end I decided that I could build a drawer case with drawer blades open at the front. I have not seen anything like this before, but I live a sheltered life. I doubt this is original ... just re-inventing the wheel.

14a.jpg


There are four parts to the drawer build: the drawer size and design, the drawer case, fitting the drawer case, and the drawer.

The drawer size and design

11a.jpg


The drawer is 230mm (9") wide and 280mm (11") deep. The width represents one third of the length of the apron. This works well since the depth of the drawer needs to be greater than the width to avoid racking. Racking would not be an issue if there were side slides (ugh!), but we are avoiding those thingies.

Note the lip on the underside of the drawer front ...

7drawer.jpg


See the drawer lining up with the apron ... going ... going ..

6drawer.jpg


... gone ...

5drawer.jpg


That lip is the drawer pull, and it doubles as the drawer stop.


The drawer case

Let's make the face of the drawer case.

The original aprons were 100mm high. The new apron was to be 65mm, which was the height I calculated (with a life size drawing on a MDF sheet).

The 65mm height included the drawer front, which would be 45mm high. That would leave a 20mm rail above the drawer.

14adrawer.jpg


The first step here is to rip away 45mm from the original apron ...

D1.jpg


These two sections are jointed so that they may be perfectly flush once glued back together, and no join evident. The jointing was done on my large shooting board ...

D2.jpg


The drawer front is marked off - with a knife, not a pencil - from the centre of the 45mm wide board ...

D3.jpg


And then the drawer front is crosscut on the table saw. The cut area is covered in blue tape to minimise spelching ...

D4.jpg


We are now left with four sections - the wide top, the two lower side sections, and the middle drawer front. The sections are glued back (taking care not to glue the drawer front back!) ...

D5.jpg


Once the glue has dried, plane the board flat ...

D6.jpg


Did you see it before? :)

D7.jpg


Now the board is ripped down to 65mm, leaving a 20mm rail above the drawer front.

Here you can see the front and rear aprons. They have also been cut to length, given a tenon at each end. The apron tenons are angled 3 degrees for the splayed legs ...

Sunday4.jpg


Part 2 will complete the drawer.

Regards from Perth

Derek
 

Sheffield Tony

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Hah - my first guess was right, shouldn't have got distracted with veneers. It is amazing, given the not exactly straight grain, that the lost thickness of a tablesaw kerf and planing up both faces is so inconspicuous.

I'm waiting to see what you did about the ugly dowels in the legs, especially the bottom ones that I'd expect to be in a visible position - the finished table doesn't look shorter, judging by the witness mark on the wall behind it ...
 

John Brown

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Well that looks fantastic, but to be fair, Sheffield Tony guessed that back on page one, and even I, who have never made anything more beautiful than a wooden wedge to keep a door open, guessed that was how to do it. I think Woodbloke's commentary made me think it was something more devious...
Which is not meant to detract in any way from the skill and craftsmanship of the execution.
 

woodbloke66

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Very cunning indeed Derek =D>

I saw something very similar done using a veneering technique when I was working for a firm making for Linely. He wanted a completely hidden drawer within a front rail but there was no opportunity to chop the rail around as you did.
The chap that made the piece (two benches behind mine) decided to slice the rail into two, very thin veneers. The first veneer was the show face into which the drawer opening was cut, once it was re-glued back onto the original rail. The second veneer, being an almost identical match, formed the drawer front.
It was still a very tricky bit of cabinet work but in the final finished job, the drawer front was indistinguishable from the rail and there was no shadow gap of any sort. I recollect also that he used a Hafele spring mechanism to open the drawer as there was obviously no pull or handle of any sort - Rob

Edit - and there's no way on God's green earth would any of those ghastly metal slide thingies appear in any of his stuff :D
 

woodbloke66

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Nice Derek :D The current project underway in the 'shop also has a secret compartment where said compartment is entirely hidden inside the drawer front and only a very close inspection using the MK 1 eyeball will reveal how to open it! :D - Rob
 

MikeG.

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woodbloke66":2hc5wt23 said:
Nice Derek :D The current project underway in the 'shop also has a secret compartment......

Just as a by-the-by, almost every piece of furniture I have ever made has a secret compartment. I love doing them. :lol:
 
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