Torx and modern screw heads

[sickasapike]

I'm a total convert, maybe everyone else is using these now but it's all a brave new world for me ! - I was living in Indonesia for 5 years until recently; where timber is wonderful and cheap as chips, but impact drivers and fancy screwheads would probably get you burnt at the stake

Going back to cross heads, or <horror> flat heads when removing old stuff is such a drag now; I've been using the Forgefast multipurpose screws from Toolstation (https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p52875?table=no) and they're fabulous, but they're the first I tried; maybe there's something better I'm missing - does anyone have any favourites they might point me at for general interior small-scale woodworking ?

 

[ColeyS1]

Same as you. Absolutely fantastic ! No need to look elsewhere imho

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[NazNomad]

Budget dictates that I use all my existing flat-heads and Phillips before I start trying new-fangledness.

 

[user22161]

.......... I've been using the Forgefast multipurpose screws from Toolstation (https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p52875?table=no) and they're fabulous, but they're the first I tried; maybe there's something better I'm missing - does anyone have any favourites they might point me at for general interior small-scale woodworking ?

What's the advantage of Torx head over Pozidrive which are readily available everywhere?

 

[sickasapike]

Budget dictates that I use all my existing flat-heads and Phillips before I start trying new-fangledness.

Guilty, I have a couple of shameful bags of these in the 'not oft used' box, the theory is I'm keeping them for use in other people's places, but things rarely come out of there.

 

[sickasapike]

What's the advantage of Torx head over Pozidrive which are readily available everywhere?

I had to look up pozidrive, they're like a better philips/crosshead (have never been clear about the differences between all those) - the ones I'm using have 6 sided asterisk type slots, dead easy to slot the driver in (zero/almost no wiggling to mesh the bit into the head), they hold in really well, too well sometimes with a new bit.

Have a look at the link above, you get a driver bit in each box so no need to buy them.

With a magnetic bit holder (forgive me if I'm teaching egg suckery here but it's all pretty new to me !) you can slap a screw on the driver, get into a restricted space, do 3 pirouettes, make a brew and the screw is still there ready to poke wherever you want, so handy !!

They're machined to cut a pilot hole in theory but I always pre-drill anyway, they go in really well with an impact driver, never had one break or a stripped head/bit, and pretty cheap too, can't fault them.

 

[NazNomad]

Isn't the biggest problem with old fixing types usually due to an ill-fitting driver (which is user error, really)?

 

[sickasapike]

Isn't the biggest problem with old fixing types usually due to an ill-fitting driver (which is user error, really)?

Guilty again - yep, old paint in there doesn't help either, I went through my old bits recently on buying a new set and threw out several where I'd obviously chosen the wrong bit for the screw.

Another plus for the fancy heads, it's easier to tell which by sight/experiment, or I find them so; and if it's too big it just doesn't fit rather then perch on the edge and grind the head - one size too small does work for small screws anyway but could strip it I suppose, and 2 sizes too small just spins iirc - nice.

 

[ColeyS1]

Pozi need to have the screw driver bit pushed firmly in for the bit to make good contact, if pressure is lost the Pozi bit will just jump and proper Joe mangle the head. Torx screws/bits are parallel

Once the bits located, it'll keep gripping with no tendency whatsoever to skip/jump out.


Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[sickasapike]

Ah yes, that's them - I put a 3, 3.5, 4 & 4.5 into cheap bit holders secured in with hot glue and clearly labelled - they're great (sometimes takes a bit of work with a heat gun to get them straight). When they get worn, I just replace the bit with a heat gun, the bits last way longer than the contents of the box so I have loads of spares.

Tempted to leave a few of them hidden around behind the work I'm doing here, maybe this stuff will move along quickly and future folk come to find the place is held together with old screw tech that is no longer available !

 

[user22161]

I've used Torx for many years in motor trade applications and thoroughly dislike them, have forgotten just how many sizes of bit and styles (number of flutes) I have in the box and how many have broken over the years, whereas there are only 3 sizes of Pozidrive head. If changing style, my preference would be most likely Robertson square drive.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

I like Pozi because they keep you fit - straining to push the bit into, and aligned with, the fixing, often at arms length while dangling off a ladder!

I can see the attractions of any system which makes "cam-out" much less of a risk...

Cheers, W2S

 

[Rorschach]

Torx and other specialty heads are great if you are doing a job with a nice new box of screws, i.e building a deck. However if you are using a variety of sizes or working on a repair job, i.e working on a car then they can be a real pain as mentioned by grahamf. A pozi bit I know the size with a quick glance and there are really only 4 sizes to worry about (2 realistically for most jobs) which are easily distinguishable.

 

[deema]

I understand that the advantage of Torx and similar is
1. The greater number of splines (surface area) in contact reduces the force that each sees. This therefore reduces the chances of the screw head becoming rounded over at high torque. Clearly there is a limit on the number of splines versus cross sectional area of each spline. This limits the number of splines that a certain screw head can take.
2. The sides of the Torx splines are vertical and are not tapered which is the case with for instance Pozi. It is therefore not necessary to apply pressure to keep the bit engaged with the screw. This reduces / eliminates the opportunity for it to jump out and round over the splines.

The same logic I believe applies to square and Allen keyed headed fasteners.

The only downside I’ve come across is that it’s impossible to clean out the heads if they become covered in any form of coating....paint, varnish, filler etc. I find square headed fasteners are the easiest to clean out should you need to remove them at a later date, and offer most if not all of the benefits of a Torx head. They are in my opinion vastly ahead of pozi.

Any of the alternative fastener heads I’ve found reduces then chances of an installed item being fildled with by the owner who then claims you didn’t install it correctly / come loose!!!

 

[skipdiver]

I use a mixture of the two, depending on what i'm doing. Started using the Toolstation ones recently and they are good for the money, with a free bit thrown into every box. You do need different sized bits but it's usually only the three main sizes.

Not much difference to pozi 1,2 and 3 and sometimes the odd philips screw, so no great deal using torx.

 

[RossJarvis]

In general I find Torx miles better than most posi-drives. A new posi bit with decent screws (reiser, spas) are usually fine. A worn bit makes things worse and most cheap screws, e.g Screwfix are fairly poor even with new bits. The only problem with torx is the bit can get a bit sticky in the socket. These things aren't generally much of an issue though unless you need to do tons at a time. Even the crappy screwfix ones are okay with a proper old fashioned hand operated screwdriver and a pilot hole and a bit of candle wax.

 

[Mark A]

I use TorxFast/ForgeFast screws almost exclusively since discovering them. Decent Pozidrive screws are ok but the Torx are half the price, and not one has snapped so far.

 

[MikeJhn]

I think the disadvantage of torque screw heads is the bit has to be exactly in line with the screw, you can be slightly off line with the Roberson square drive and still have a good screw head afterwards, sometimes this can be an advantage when hand screwing, power drivers will muller anything if you are at an angle.

Mike

 

[MattRoberts]

I used Torx for a while, but found the bit didn't always hold the screw, and also had some problems with stripping. One of the biggest pains was having to find the right size bits for the different sized screws each time.

I've moved to Robertson square drive, and they're awesome. Way less potential to strip than any other screw type (except triangular), and the bit holds then firm every time, so driving one hand is easy. Plus it's one drive head for all screw sizes, so no need to change bits.

 

[Eric The Viking]

I really like the Robertson system (ducks and runs...).

... seriously, then Torx, then finally Pozi, but only with a diamond driver. The diamond bits make a huge difference.