Tormek T3 or Grinder?

[dann]

I've got a pro edge and it's awesome, I'm on a tight budget and research the best fir the job and the pro edge wins hands down... Also with a little thought all the tormek/jet jigs can be used with the sorby, with a little more thought it could be made variable speed too.
It has a grind stone attachment and also a buffing mop.
Win, win if you ask me .

 

[Corneel]

Here you can find some reasonable safety guidelines for bench grinders. Read and follow them and the danger of shattering wheels is negligable.

http://www.safetyline.wa.gov.au/pagebin/mechhazd0001.pdf

Sure you can overheat an iron even on one of these soft wheels like the Norton 3X. Glazed wheel, heavy pressure and not cooling often enough. But when you take reasonable care, clean the wheel often, don't push hard, cool in water when it gets warm to the touch (warm, not hot!), then you will have a hard time to damage your tools.

I choose not to grind all the way to the edge, getting as close as I can though. Then I finish the procedure on a coarse wetting stone to raise a burr and wet on a fine stone, usually at a slightly higher angle. The extra work on the flat stones removes all "micro blueing" that might have occured becuase you are grinding a thin edge. I use mainly O1 steel, vintage steel and I have some Japanese chisels. I even grind the Japanese ones occasionally. The edges I produce like that are just as long lasting as when I do all the work by hand.

It sure is a skill to learn, so learning with a cheap chisel is a good idea. Rest assured, when you do accidentally blue a corner of a tool it is no the end of the world. Just use it and through repeated sharpenings the bad spot will dissapear after a while.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I have the Tormek 2006 (10" wheel).

The advantage of the Tormek as a grinder comes from its ability to create a straight hollow to the very edge of the blade. This is where its speed comes from - not the grinding, but its ability to speed up freehand sharpening. There is little to straighten up, and the micro bevel created on this primary is smaller than any dry grinder. There is absolutely no need to regrade the wheel to 1000 grit. It is faster (and more accurate) to use a 1000 waterstone as you sharpen. Indeed, with a tiny microbevel you can often jump the 1000 grit. Further, because the Tormek can reset the bevel angle very accurately, it is a simple matter to regrind the hollow when needed.

The hollow off a 10" wheel is pretty shallow. This is the only grinder that I will recommend for Japanese laminated blades. I hollow grind mine on the Tormek. The cool grind is absolutely safe. The hollow is shallow - one will hone it away in a few sharpenings. (Can you tell I like this machine?).

I do not regrade the wheel on my Tormek. It is used as a grinder, not a sharpener. The 220 grit wheel is already much smoother than the grind off the average 8" dry grinder wheel, which is commonly 38 - 60 grit. Keep the wheel clean/dressed and it grinds quite quickly. Like all grinders, the wheel needs to be cleaned regularly for optimum use/speed of grinding.

It is expensive as an outlay, but it should last a lifetime for most users. By contrast, the imitations have poor/plastic bearings, less powerful motors, cheaper accessories and fittings, and simply do not run as smoothly.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Aled Dafis]

Ha! I haven't been on this forum for a good few months, but surprise surprize, the first post i find is on sharpening/grinding. ;-))

I've used a Tormek, ProEdge and a simple grinder with a decent Norton 3X wheel, here are my thoughts.

Tormek - produces great edges but is quite slow, especially if you're an occasional woodworker and need to top up the water trough every time you use it, or are as indiciplined as I was and leave the stone sitting in the water for weeks only to find rust particles on the stone every time you go to use it. Ideally you need a "wet area" in the workshop to use the Tormek as it's inevitible that water will find it's way out of the trough and onto your bench at some point. I sold the Tormek on to invest in the ProEdge.

Proedge - Great bit of kit, grinds quickly provided that you have a sharp/fresh belt installed. I do have a small concern however that the belt very slightly rounds the edge over very slightly, thus resulting in an edge that isn't optimally sharp (only applies to turning tools which are used straight from the grinder - hand tools would always be honed afterwards anyway). I've moved away from using the ProEdge due to this, and the fact that I prefer a hollow grind for my hand tools - that's purely a personal preference. I should really think about selling it on to release some funds.

Grinder (cheap Machine Mart jobby) and Norton 3X wheel (cost more than the grinder) - This is a setup that I'm totally happy with, I have a toolrest set to grind a 22-23degree bevel that I can easily hand hone in seconds. The Norton 3X wheel really is the key here, it grinds so cool that there is minimal risk of burning the edge. I have a fine pink wheel on the other side for my turning tools, and use a Oneway Wolverine jig on it to effortlessly sharpen my turning tools.

Here's a video I put together a while ago to show my approach, it really is quick and easy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFRJIAOGSJI&list=UUu8qQzH5LXPf6noBLjcLlJw

Cheers
Aled

 

[paulm]

I do have a small concern however that the belt very slightly rounds the edge over very slightly, thus resulting in an edge that isn't optimally sharp (only applies to turning tools which are used straight from the grinder - hand tools would always be honed afterwards anyway).

That's odd Aled, never noticed anything like that happening.

How could it happen ?

Are you sharpening on part of the belt that is not supported by the backing platten ?

Cheers, Paul

 

[Aled Dafis]

I do have a small concern however that the belt very slightly rounds the edge over very slightly, thus resulting in an edge that isn't optimally sharp (only applies to turning tools which are used straight from the grinder - hand tools would always be honed afterwards anyway).

That's odd Aled, never noticed anything like that happening.

How could it happen ?

Are you sharpening on part of the belt that is not supported by the backing platten ?

Cheers, Paul

It's mainly on the skew chisel, I sharpen on the platen but I believe that the belt folds up just a hair in front of the tool, resulting in a very small round over. The edge is still pretty sharp, but doesn't seem as good as off the grindstone. The hollow bevel might also have a part to play here as it reduces the effective angle of the edge, so it might be that making the edge "sharper". Whatever it is, I'm convinced that my skew is definitely sharper and thus more controllable from the grinder than it was off the ProEdge.

 

[paulm]

Agreed that a hollow grind would give a lower effective angle at the edge Aled.

If that is what you are after would you not just reduce the flat bevel angle on the pro-edge to give similar ?

Cheers, Paul

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Tormek - ..... Ideally you need a "wet area" in the workshop to use the Tormek as it's inevitible that water will find it's way out of the trough and onto your bench at some point.

Cheers
Aled

That's certainly true. In fact, don't use it on your bench - the water goes everywhere. Sharpen something like a drawknife, and the bench will be like the Somerset Levels in seconds. (Tip - keep the drawknife moving laterally all the time while grinding it, or you'll have a deepish nick from one corner of the wheel to grind out. Don't ask how I know....)

I use mine on the kitchen worktop, and put it on an old towel, which helps to absorb most of the fallout, and is handy for drying tools off to check bevel angles and when grinding is finished. It's also dead easy to wipe down the worktop after use. Not so easy on an unfinished wooden benchtop.

On the plus side, Derek Cohen is right about build quality. Mine is still going strong after twenty years of (admittedly occasional) use. I'll keep using it until either it falls apart or the wheel wears away, at which point I'll consider a different system. Probably a Creusen 6" or 8" d/e bench grinder. That will see me out, and probably the next couple of generations as well!

P.S. - Welcome back, Aled!

 

[mqbernardo]

thanks for all the info guys. i already took the plunge and bought a grinder, albeit an 8" one. i´ll built myself a tool rest and get on with it. if it proves less than ideal, i can always buy a tormek in the long tun (it will be the T3, i´m afraid).
I´m still earning my sharpening chops as we speak, but after practicing for 3 years i am relatively adept at it (or so i like to think). when i need to grind a dull/chipped/old -from-ebay blade i´ve been using a DMT blue stone, but i´ve been finding it a bit slow as of late. As i said, i usually flatten my waterstones with it, so i wonder if i could have prematurely worn it off (my stones are shapton pros for sharpening and choseras for honing/polishing, which are relatively hard ones, as you might know)? still, they´re supposed to last a life-time... anyway, i´ve been going through a lot of recently bought plane blades and chisels (old and new), and that just got me tired of the diamond stone. need to take care of the sharpening chore fast and get back to working wood. i´m sure you all know the feeling...

thanks again,
Miguel.

 

[jimi43]

Of all the shaping gear for edge tools I use the Tormek gets the most use for sorting out rubbish bevels and the Creusen is used for creating new bevels.

I want to get a Norton 3X wheel for the Creusen as it has had such great press here and elsewhere for quick and cool stock removal and then I may change my mind but until then...this is the setup I have moved along to over the years.

Mind you...the Tormek was a gift from a very kind person not a million miles from here!!! :wink:

Jimi

 

[rmp]

I use a grinder for shaping and the Tormek for sharpening.

I have a T3 and think it's great... but I have found that in addition to the machine itself you really need to buy the diamond truing tool (about £50) and when you use it go *very, very* slowly to get a good result. The other item which is useful is the stone grader SP-650. I was dubious, but it really does work.

The jigs are very expensive and I don't have any other than supplied with the machine, as apart from the cost I would prefer to learn to do it by hand, but I believe the Jet ones are compatible and much cheaper. I have learnt to sharpen my wood turning tools well enough without a jig.

As others have said, don't leave the stone sitting in water.

Other than that, I can't fault it. It makes what I call my "dung" chisels (used for prying up floor boards, general abuse etc.) as sharp as my decent carpentry ones. At least for a day or so

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Of all the shaping gear for edge tools I use the Tormek gets the most use for sorting out rubbish bevels and the Creusen is used for creating new bevels.

I want to get a Norton 3X wheel for the Creusen as it has had such great press here and elsewhere for quick and cool stock removal and then I may change my mind but until then...this is the setup I have moved along to over the years ...

Jimi

Hi Jimi

I think that you may be disappointed with the Norton 3X. It does what it says it does, that is, grinds cool. However, the reason it does so is that the wheel is very friable. This means that it sheds grit very freely. This is the messiest wheel around. It will spray dust and grit all over the show. I do not use mine any longer and prefer the White Norton 48 grit on my 8" dry grinder.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Corneel]

I have the Norton 3X on my Cruessen. It only sprays dust when I use the diamond trueing tool. In normal use it doesn't. Maybe I am not neat enough to notice. :lol: But it does wear down quit fast. The next wheel will probably be a normal coarse one.

 

[jimi43]

That's very interesting Derek and puts me back in research mode!

I hadn't seen that problem before....and was expecting the opposite i.e. no shedding at all. My white wheel on the Creusen sheds quite a bit and i try to keep that in my dirty area so I don't want something worse than that. For the amount of stock removal I do I may choose the extra extra coarse DMT diamond plate which is supposed to be brilliant!

Cheers

Jimi