Tools for carving a seat

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Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)

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In the spirit of offering information to others who are also looking to take their first steps carving seats, I have a run down of the tools I have used so far. Not all of these tools are necessary, but as I am learning to carve a seat, I am interested in the tools that make this happen.

It is also hoped that others, especially those with experience, will comment on the tools - which they find useful and which not.

I shall return to discuss my experience of marking drilling and tapering the legs at a later time. That deserves a topic to itself.

In the background I am making a prototype three-leg counter stool in Radiata Pine (construction timber - dry and a little brittle ... but the smell when cut is strong!). The seat is 12" deep and 15" wide. The blank is 1 3/4" thick.

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Roughing out with the Ray Iles scorp: this is the only scorp I have used, so I cannot make comparisons with others. Apparently - I read somewhere - that Pete Galbert came across a vintage scorp which he loved, and sent it off to Ray Iles as a model. This is the result. To a newbie like myself, this was well-balanced and easy to sharpen - it came beautifully hollow ground and pretty sharp to start. It was easy to keep sharp with a strop. I liked the handles and the blades continuous curve (I've seen some, like Two Cherries, which are a curved square). It surprised me how it was possible to use this to make precise cuts, both thick and fine.

The Veritas Pull Shave is an alternative to the scorp, however I did not find it as aggressive. Instead it was more like a jack plane than a scrub - capable of removing waste but not cut as deeply as the scorp. I like using if after the scorp to refine the surface. It offered more control than the scorp. I am comfortable using drawknives, but someone who is not may prefer it to the scorp.

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I managed to find two cobbler (shoemaker) shaves of differing radii. These came with blades that were nearly worn out. They were reground and sharpened up. The handles were cut off as they were limiting the angles they could be used at. These shaves really surprised me. Dark horses. They managed to get into tight angles ...

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The LN round bottomed spokeshave was used later at the front of the seat. This is a reliable, old friend.

These are two travishers I built. One has a radius of 5 1/2", and the other a radius of 11". The latter is to remove the hollows left by the 5 1/2", or where a flatter surface is needed. To be blunt, the 11" is overkill. I have seen Pete Galbert used just the one (5 1/2") travisher (made by Claire Minihan), and do so immediately after the scorp. As mentioned earlier, I am feeling my way ... and anyway I made them. It was just a little more time.

Jarrah and Rock Oak ...

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It was very satisfying to find these two planes working well.

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Lastly, the surface was finished with a scraper. This is one I made from the rear end of an O1 1/8" thick plane blade. It is prepared very simply, hollow grinding to create a fine wire at the edges.

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That is sufficient to scrape and leave a surprisingly fine surface .... even in Pine.

The seat is still a work in process.

Comments?

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
I have the same Ray Iles scorp, like using it. However I some times think that the angle of the handle could do with changing. That they could do with being at a higher angle in relationship to the cutting edge.
 
I had a commission last year to make some children's windsor chairs to the same design as some I made for the same client thirty years earlier.

Windsor-Seat-Blanks.jpg


I used to make lots of windsor chairs, and when saddling the seats I came to the conclusion that many of the tools simply duplicate each other. Consequently for a full size adult chair I'd rough it out with a shallow profiled gutter adze then go straight to a travisher, which I'd use to finish the job. For children's chairs I just use a travisher all the way through. I've tried multiple tools like scorps, nothing wrong with them, but if you've got a decent travisher they're a bit redundant as they don't bring anything special to the party.

For a power alternative I've tried an angle grinder with one of those shaped cutters. The mess was unbelievable, plus it throws dust all over your workshop leaving a big clear up operation afterwards. As it was no faster than an adze, plus it felt like an accident waiting to happen, I abandoned the power option. However, I've subsequently met a guy who uses a Festool RAS sander with 24 grit paper for timber shaping, it's a very expensive tool, but if I was making windsors in volume again it's one I'd consider. Amazingly it removes stock just as fast as an angle grinder, but is more controllable, it's far safer, and the dust is almost 100% collected by the clever revolving shroud design.

One of the biggest issues IMO with windsor chair making today is that Elm for seats is almost unobtainable, and I've never found a totally satisfactory substitute. Poplar is okay, but it's so ugly that it needs painting. European Walnut is also an option, but it's not very traditional, it's becoming rarer by the day especially in the huge boards needed for seats, and is very expensive. In fact I'd say that timber sourcing is the biggest problem with windsors, because before long you'll want to use Yew, and that's another timber that's becoming rarer than hens teeth.

Good luck!
 

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Custard

Try English Woodlands Timber Ltd at Cocking Sawmills, Cocking GU29 0HS

01730 816941

I bought a 2 1/2" slab of elm a while back and they seemed to have regular supplies - at that time I think they said they sourced from Scotland. Cocking is north of Chichester, not far from West Dean College, and Goodwood Race Course.
I have used them several times and always found them helpful.

I don't think it was cheap!

Good luck
Mike
 
Bedrock":vb3s67f7 said:
Custard

Try English Woodlands Timber Ltd at Cocking Sawmills, Cocking GU29 0HS

01730 816941

I bought a 2 1/2" slab of elm a while back and they seemed to have regular supplies - at that time I think they said they sourced from Scotland. Cocking is north of Chichester, not far from West Dean College, and Goodwood Race Course.
I have used them several times and always found them helpful.

I don't think it was cheap!

Good luck
Mike

I buy there regularly Mike. Most of their Elm is Wych Elm and unfortunately supplies are pretty irregular. You did very well finding 2 1/2" boards, all the stuff I've seen is max 2" and too narrow to get a seat from a single board.
 
Prototyping a stool

The stool is 26" high, and the seat is 14 1/2" wide and 12" deep. Eventually, the three counter stools planned for the kitchen will have a Black Walnut seat and Hard Maple legs.

The prototype is incomplete - missing the stretchers. These are planned to span between the legs, in other words, there will be three stretches (ala Esherick). They are not added in these photos since I was experimenting with the number of legs (and there is a limit to the number of holes one can drill before everything just looks like Swiss cheese!).

The model was made from Radiata Pine. That is OK-ish for the seat, but a word of warning - it is horrible for legs. The wood is soft like tissue paper and fragile. I would have liked the legs to be a snitch thinner. That will be possible with the Maple.

The seat received 8 tapered mortices: 5 at the front and 3 at the rear. I played around with the placement of legs - 2 at the front and 2 at the rear, legs in line and legs wider at the front, 1 leg at the front and 1 leg at the rear. At the end it came down to four legs vs 3 legs.

I showed the four-legged version to my wife first ...

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Then I showed her the three-legged version ...

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What do you think she preferred?

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
My vote goes to the four legged version, sorry if I've said the wrong thing :roll:
 
The 3 legged one won't wobble on any surface, and I think it looks best.

Pete
 
This is a great topic! Derek both those stools are lovely... I may have to copy them. I am a big fan of four legged stools but recently I’ve been reading about Peter Galbert’s “perch” and the history behind its design. So I might have a go making one...

James Mursell has been perfecting his workflow over the years and it goes adze, travisher, scraper (for hollowing seats). This is the way he taught me on one of his courses and I really loved the simplicity and efficiency of it. He was skilled enough with the adze that not a huge amount of work with the travisher was needed - hopefully I will get to that point one day!

I also got one of his travishers while I was there and it is a joy to use.

Incidentally, what are people’s thoghts on big vs small adzes? I’ve heard good arguments for both (having only used a larger one). Is the smaller as effective at removing waste?
 
The seat went through at least 4 re-builds. It looks like Swiss cheese (with the holes plugged) as the rake and splay were modified a few times. In the end I preferred 11 degrees rake front-and back with 10 degrees of splay on the front legs.

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To answer the question which leg preference my wife had, it was the 3-legged stool. The 4-legged was "too much like a stool". :lol:

The other question was whether 3 legs would be stable. The short answer is I could dance on this stool and it will not tip over. Solid.

All the legs were tied together with stretchers that had wedged through mortice-and-tenons. The leg-into-seat were tapered at 7 degrees. The stretchers-into-stretchers were straight. All tenons ended at 5/8".

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I spent some time comparing the 7 degree reamer and tenon rounder (taperer) I made versus the 12 degree versions from Veritas. I shall post pictures at another time. What I can say is that - in my short experience! - is that the Veritas tools worked amazingly well. Mine worked well too - slower, which is a good thing when you are needing to be careful. Nevertheless, I ended up using my tools as I found the 12 degree taper was not as secure as the 7 degree taper. It would be great is Lee Valley offered these tools in 6 degrees (my tools aimed at 6 degrees but I managed 7 degrees).

The prototype ended like this ...

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In the end, my wife decided that this design was "ho-hum" ... just not in keeping enough with the more modern designs I build. :?

So back to the drawing board!

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
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