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Jacob

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Well, there is the small matter of the security of the gas pipeline to Europe that is currently worth around net £5bn to Gazprom per quarter. (Made more crucial since Germany's refusal to allow Nordstream II)

Seems to be a battle between oil/gas profiteers more than anything.
 

selectortone

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Seems to be a battle between oil/gas profiteers more than anything.
It's always about oil and gas.

The reason the mayhem and misery in Syria has gone on for so long, and the reason why Russia is there, is because of plans to build a gas pipeline from Qatar to Turkey which would threaten Russia's monopoly of gas supply to Eastern Europe.

It's always about oil and gas.

 

Spectric

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It's always about oil and gas.
They are just a comodity, it is the wealth and power they can bring which is what causes problems and can be used as a bargaining tool when it comes to any diplomacy. Looks like nuclear power may not be that bad, with oil & gas it is war and conflict that kills you and with Nuclear it is ionising radiation that dismantles your cells when it goes wrong, either way you are dead but I suppose with war there is a chance of recovery unlike a nuclear holocaust.

The solution to all these problems we have involving Russia cannot be fixed by force or conflict, that is a no win outcome and so lets start open and frank talks with all parties and leave any airs & graces or pre conconceptions out of it. The Americans need to accept that the cold war is over, it can no longer be used as an excuse to justify the american defence budget and we need to see the huge benefits for everyone if we stop fighting and work together.

If we go out of our way to understand the Russians and accept that maybe they are not as portrayed by the Americans and actually look at things from their perspective we may see why Putin thinks like he does, if everyone keeps saying you are this and that then eventually he may just decide to be just that.

So Russia, would a very mild dose of communism not be a bad thing, just select the good bits and that could put the brakes on the out of control materialistic west where freedom of choice is way out of control, people buy an item of clothing and only wear it once and you have the few owning everything at the expense of the majority and it is planet earth that is really coping everything.
 

Spectric

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Another aspect is

"
Bruce Gagnon, 21 Jan 22, Russia did not invade Crimea. They had a long-term lease with Ukraine that allowed over 20,000 military personnel at the Russian navy and air bases there.
The Russian-ethnic people of Crimea self-organized a referendum and voted 96% to seek to rejoin Russia. They saw the 2014 Nazi-led take over in Kiev during the US orchestrated coup and wanted nothing to do with the ‘new Ukraine’ regime.

"

So looks like the Americans started the problems in Ukraine, so why not give the people of Ukraine a vote on their future and let them decide, apparently this is what happened in Crimea. If the vote is split or very close then why not split the country, it is how we now have India and Pakistan is it not.


Here is something to watch about Ukraine, not seen it yet but was told it could be interesting:

 

baldkev

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🧐 has anyone met jacob? 😆 maybe 'jacob' has a kremlin i.p address 😆🤣

Love you jacob
 

Jacob

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Another page worth reading.

Good for armaments and fuel industries; basically they control USA.
Ditto USSR via "state" capitalism, free market capitalism and a mish mash mafia of gangsters and oligarchs with offshore accounts (i.e. City of London)
Twas ever thus - similar groups were the only beneficiaries of our lost Empire.
Our role in all this is to pay for the stuff because we need it, or die for it if we happen to be in the forces at the wrong time.
 

Terry - Somerset

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It still does - Guantanamo Bay still has 39 prisoners despite Obamas declared intention to close it.

Wikipedia tells us the 780 have been processed through there - mostly held without trial.

Although I accept they were judged to be a real threat, it does demonstrate that the West is is prepared to adopt the same tactics and behaviours as the "enemy" - albeit somewhat lower numbers.
 

Jacob

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That was Will Hutton reviewing. A very old fashioned Guardian style "centrist". They think it's cool not joining the Lib dems - their natural home.
Is it true that "lefty" centrists still wear flares?
Could be just a rumour I suppose.
 

woodieallen

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....

So Russia, would a very mild dose of communism not be a bad thing, just select the good bits .....

Oh wow, Comrade Spectric ! Who decides the good bits and who decides who gets them ?

I do agree with you, however, in the broadest sense. Remove Russia, China, USA and one particular death cult from their aims of world domination then we'd all sleep easier and the world would be a better place.
 

woodieallen

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....

Here is something to watch about Ukraine, not seen it yet but was told it could be interesting:



So you're posting a link to something that you've not seen but you've been told it could be interesting ?

OK....on the Ignore list you go.
 

Jake

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Bruce Gagnon, 21 Jan 22, Russia did not invade Crimea. They had a long-term lease with Ukraine that allowed over 20,000 military personnel at the Russian navy and air bases there. The Russian-ethnic people of Crimea self-organized a referendum and voted 96% to seek to rejoin Russia. They saw the 2014 Nazi-led take over in Kiev during the US orchestrated coup and wanted nothing to do with the ‘new Ukraine’ regime.

I count 4 Russian propaganda tropes.
 

Blackswanwood

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I count 4 Russian propaganda tropes.

Indeed - Russia itself actually made Crimea part of Ukraine in 1954.

Jacob has asked a couple of times why Stalin’s actions have anything to do with the issues today. Here is a good example.

After WWII Stalin purged Crimea of (among others) the Tatars. They were moved East and even though the subsequent regimes said Stalin had been wrong not allowed to move back.

When the USSR disintegrated a big thing was made by Russia of them being able to now move back. Not living under Russian rule was reversed when Crimea was annexed.
 

Blackswanwood

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It's always nice to have 77 Brigade turn up and explain what we ought to be thinking. Could you expand a little, please? Russia didn't have a naval and air base in Crimea?

I don’t know about the airbase but they had a lease to operate the Black Sea fleet until 2042 out of Sebastopol.

The lease of course didn’t extend to say Russia had a right to take Crimea back by force.
 
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