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D_W

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What we need is a total overhaul of everything and not just a collection of politicians, it needs to be made of a more diverse group of people from engineering, sciences, etc etc so you get a realistic outcome when decisions are made. Lets have a new parliament building outside of london, leave all the historcal pomp and bshiete behind and put it in the middle of the country. On top of this let's get real and accept that we are no longer a world super power and need to play cat and mouse with the big boys and playing war games because we will only end up getting hurt. Put the people first and hit poverty, taking back our streets, addressing homelessness and looking after the old rather than just treating them as no further use burdens. This unfortunately needs a new type of political system and leadership. The British have never been good at people management and leadership, they have been responsable for many failures so how can we expect a successful government, perhaps it is time to do what others do and that is bring in leaders under contract like sport clubs do a lot of, must be a reason why they use so many foreign managers and less british.

I think the ideals listed are what makes people a target for politicians. All of the poverty initiatives in the US have failed to address why people are on the streets here - they don't do anything to get the people on the streets involved in taking their egg and carrying it on their own. They're first steps out with no long-term plan, or just outright political handouts.

100% agree on the war games, but don't know the right answer there (as in, you can't be completely publicly tied to peace, peace, peace as you'll be the object of aggression and constant testing at some point). but I fundamentally do not like the idea of war in any situation other than something like WWII, and I'm sure the lead up to war in the first place was not just "oh, look, pure evil is here and we're pure good".

The issue here is no matter what the system or ideals, there is a group of people who is too lazy to do much of anything looking for a handout, and there is a small group of egotistical selfish and controlling sociopaths, hypomanics and psychopaths who will always look for control and actualization, and they will go to great distances to cover up what really gives them a buzz and front something less disturbing.

Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump (maybe not when he was younger, but there's something seriously wrong with him now - I think when he was younger, he was just trying to be popular and look unique at the same time) are examples of this.

The reality is "good people" with good intentions will tire before the others tire.
 

clogs

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Spectric
we also need to make our politions /leaders more responsible for the [email protected] job they are doing...like HR2, military waste, those in charge should be sacked immediatley with no pension....or put them on the front line under the thumb of a decent sargent, put a gun in their hand, it's them that should go over the top first.......
plus penalties for theft /expenses so extreme they wont want any more duck houses.....hahaha.....
Full disclosure of the previous 10 years earnings and tax....
also someone with [email protected]'s to stop this woke (Y) ness thats wrecking the country/world...
Anyway as for Russia and all those kinda places, given the chance the people wouldn't want the political system they have now....
Blood diamonds and putins mates / Oligarchs rings a bell....
our system may have it's faults but sooner ours than theirs I say.....
 

Phil Pascoe

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Yes people are now voting to stop someone rather than for a candidate which shows how PP the choice now is ...

I like many people have spent decades voting for the least worst candidate. Any so called democratic system that allows a Party with 12.6% of the votes only one MP is a disgrace.
 

Terry - Somerset

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NHS, social care, energy poverty, drugs, housing etc - issues some/most/all care about. If political inaction is a barrier to progress, politics may need to change.

Better services cost money that needs to be raised through taxation. The only issue is who pays - which taxes raised or which other services are reduced. Current (generally futile) debate revolves around finger pointing - the wealthy, corrupt, amazon, etc. Realism should rule!

Changing the way politics works may give impetus to future progress. A few thoughts:
  • increase MP pay three fold, dismantle the expenses system. Removes expenses fraud, cheap to administer. May attract people with integrity and ability, rather than egos.
  • reconfigure the HoL. On the agenda for 3 decades or more with little progress. Define role, authority, membership - that it is difficult is not a reason for continued prevarication
  • make senior civil service accountable for their deficiencies. Parliament sets strategy and direction. The civil service should be held accountable for delivery, not politicians who have neither specialist knowledge nor direct control over staff and resources.
The Times recently drew attention to the odd behaviours of the voters - political mould breakers (eg: Thatcher, Blair, Johnson) interspersed with the very conventional (Major, Brown, May). The former won multiple elections, the latter fell in their first race. Not sure what may suggest for the future?
 

Droogs

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Make politicians truely financially and criminally accountable for policies implemented that are harmful to the nation and full proportional representation by percentage of votes cast for each party. Oh and voting by all over 16s mandatory in all elections apart from convicted incarcerated persons, evasion of which is punishable by confiscation of 50% of net worth or prison for the length of that parliament. That should get things on a better keel. Also any politician found deliberately lying about policy or its effects to be punished with an automatic 5 year prison sentence.
 

Just4Fun

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... full proportional representation by percentage of votes cast for each party.
I do see the attraction of proportional representation but I also see some problems.
One is that a truly independent candidate would stand no real chance of getting elected.
Another is that I know someone who stood for the local council here, where proportional representation is used. Under a first-past-the-post system she would have been elected but due to proportional representation she was not elected but someone who got fewer votes did get a seat. I am not sure that is just. Did the people who voted for her get the representation they deserved?
Oh and voting by all over 16s mandatory in all elections ...
An elderly relative in Australia, where voting is compulsory, went along to vote in the last election. Unfortunately he is senile and could not remember his address to identify himself, and had to return at a later time with his son to remind him who he is. I can't say I place a lot of faith in his vote.

Voting is not compulsory here in Finland but nevertheless I voted yesterday in a local election. I don't really speak a local language, had not looked at any material from any candidates or attended any hustings. I have no idea what any candidate stood for. How much faith should anyone have in my vote? Why should votes by people like me be compulsory? Would it make the system more fair in any way?
 

Spectric

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make our politions /leaders more responsible for the [email protected] job they are doing...like HR2, military waste,
Total transparency is needed, if you or I were not doing our jobs to a mimimum standard then we would expect to lose them so if our local MP is just not delivering the local message to the top and just licking arssse instead to improve their promotional chances then there needs to be a system to remove them rather than having to just put up with them until the next election.

also someone with [email protected]'s to stop this woke (Y) ness thats wrecking the country/world...

That is a real threat that could change the very essence of being human, it is a disease that is eating it's way through society and preventing many people from doing their job and cleansing characteristics from what makes someone who they are, eventually all humans will be like clones with no individual traits.

Why do some people think they are a new version of Darwin who rather than just recording what they see want to actually interfere like some insane doctor and create new versions. Nature has been around for thousands of years and in that time created for most species the male and the female with the sole purpose of maintaining the species, it did not intentionally create anything else but now for some unknown reason some people cannot accept being normal.

Then what total muppet came up with these f----ing pro nouns, is our education system so shot that even addressing another person is now becoming a problem in case they get upset, social media and the lack of face to face contact has a lot to answer for. If you decide to go around in such a state as to cause confusion to others then wear a big badge but leave the rest alone as we already know who we are.

Also any politician found deliberately lying about policy or its effects to be punished with an automatic 5 year prison sentence.
Expand that to not answering questions openly and honestly, avoiding answering a question directly, answering a question with waffle or with another question and putting self interest first. The trouble is that deliberately lying about policy or its effects has become normal in politics, an election is won by the party that can con the public the most to win votes and we seem to always fall for it.

The best election system would be one that it is mandatory for all to vote and it is done as the whole UK and not by counties, so the winner is simply the one who has the most people voting for them.
 

baldkev

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Basically you don't want to go to war with an aging population.

Totally..... old people can be so cranky

What we need is a total overhaul of everything and not just a collection of politicians, it needs to be made of a more diverse group of people from engineering, sciences, etc etc so you get a realistic outcome when decisions are made

Yep, but sensible ideas are not welcome and will never be a reality because it'll lead to a curb on lucrative government contracts ( whichever party is in charge )

Johnson fell asleep in the same meeting. Biden had the excuse of jet lag and a hectic schedule the day before.
Yeah but boris had a birthday party earlier in the day, plus a wine and biscuits lunch 😆


Has anyone noticed this thread has probably overtaken jacobs mft thread's post count? Mind you the one about guns seemed to go on a bit 🤣😄
 

D_W

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Totally..... old people can be so cranky

:D :D

They'll want to tell the other side to stop fighting at 3:30 in the afternoon because it's getting late, and then they'll get everyone up at 4 the next morning and start talking about what it was like to be in fighting shape in their day.
 

Phil Pascoe

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The compulsory vote argument is a strange one. On one hand I think yes, it's right so long as there's a "none of the above" box (iirc Australia has) ............. which in a way tends to negate any argument in its favour, and on the other its wrong - why should the vote of someone who has no real political leanings who hasn't a clue for whom or what they're voting for count the same as mine?
 

Terry - Somerset

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A compulsory vote requiring all, no matter how ignorant, perverse, demented etc to cast a vote means we get the politicians best able to promote themselves, not the best or most capable leaders.

Voting should be a privilege given only to those who demonstrate the capacity to grasp basic concepts of economics, law, morality, social responsibility etc to make a rational judgement

Aspiring politicians would then need to evidence their capacity for good judgement and decency, not their ability to perform for the media. Sound bite politics would disappear.
 

Spectric

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Voting should be a privilege given only to those who demonstrate the capacity to grasp basic concepts of economics, law, morality, social responsibility etc to make a rational judgement
That is the wrong direction, if everyone had to vote then the politicians would have to talk to everyone and not a select few, this would also introduce them to the ignorant, perverse, demented etc voters who are currently not on the radar.

The downside I can see is that the ignorant, perverse, demented and gullable could be used as porns because they may be easily convinced to vote a certain way, but then it might encourage politicians to address these people and actually do some good for society as a whole and not only worry about a select few.
 

Terry - Somerset

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That is the wrong direction, if everyone had to vote then the politicians would have to talk to everyone and not a select few, this would also introduce them to the ignorant, perverse, demented etc voters who are currently not on the radar.

This is absolutely wrong. Current politicians are very aware of the ignorant, perverse etc - it is they who elect them. They believe and don't question half truths and implausible promises etc. They prefer to place their trust in Ant and Dec and social media.

We get the politicians we vote for. More ill informed folk in a polling booth won't change politics.

A tick in the exam box won't happen - those who fail the exam would still understandably protest their right to a vote. Education would make a difference - this also needs the active support of a media which too often creates stories in support circulation and audience numbers rather than informing.
 
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woodieallen

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I haven't got time to wade through the umpteen posts since I last visited but returning to the ship/programme in question (and apologies if it's already been discussed) but Northumberland was tasked to prevent the ussian spy ship from eavesdropping on the very secret US nuclear submarine.

Question...just how did the Russians know that that sub would be in that location and when ?
 

Blackswanwood

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I haven't got time to wade through the umpteen posts since I last visited but returning to the ship/programme in question (and apologies if it's already been discussed) but Northumberland was tasked to prevent the ussian spy ship from eavesdropping on the very secret US nuclear submarine.

Question...just how did the Russians know that that sub would be in that location and when ?

It's ironic that in a technologically advanced world the way they dealt with the problem was to simply make the Northumberland's engines noisy!
 
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