Thein Separator problem

[ScouseKev]

I could really use Some advice please, if you could help.

I built a basic separator as per the photo.

Having tested it...it seems to separate all the chips no problem, but a lot of the finer dust is still getting through.

I took the filter bag off and shone a light behind it and you can see plenty being blown out.

I followed a build on you tube by a guy with the id "Ghostes"
He used his until the bin was half full and in all that time nothing had got through to the plastic collector bag.

This story seems fairly typical of these style of separators, so im wondering what i may have done wrong.

Here's my dimensions.

bin dia 500mm.
drop slot dia 390mm.
internal ht 180mm.
Inlet dia 150mm.
connection to extractor 150mm.

I realise that a 150mm inlet on the top is quite large compared to overall dia of the top so i reduced it down to 100mm but it didn't really make any difference.

Any advice would be most helpful. Thanks

 

[marcros]

is the system airtight? It sounds to me like you have a leakage.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I wonder if the inlet diameter is the problem.

For 6" I assume you are using a HVLP machine like a DX? It's not a lot of suction compared to a vacuum cleaner-style HPLV machine. The difference between the size of the inlet passage and the top chamber of the separator is not so great, So the drop in pressure is not that great, and so anything that is airborne may well stay airborne.

I'm no expert, but I intend to build one myself and am just thinking out loud.

 

[beech1948]

Possibly you should have a look on Phil Theins web site at the forum where severasl of these issues come up and are resolved. In general the solutions revolve around two issues a) Air leaks somewhere which should be plugged b) The positioning of the vertical outlet.. ... that is how deep it is in the separator as there appears to be an optimum depth to make it work.

Al

 

[ScouseKev]

Would some small air leaks really allow so much dust to get through?

It probably is leaking as i hadn't screwed it together fully or caulked any of the joints.
I wanted to test it before i put any silicone round it.

Its a SIP 01954. 3hp 2 bag extractor.

Thanks for the replies so far

 

[harvestbarn]

I believe both the Cyclone and Thein let the finer dust through, to some extent this is needed on the filters to provide a coating which makes them more effective in collecting fine dust. I have put a Thein separator between the fabric filter and the plastic collection bag on my Axminster collector. This is intended to reduce the previously collected waste being lifted and ending up in the filter when the bag starts to fill. A hole has been provided so the airline can clean the top of the separator when needed without having to take it all apart. I measured the air flow before and after fitting and found the reduction when all was clean was acceptable. It is hoped the suction will remain good for longer overall.

I do have it in mind to either fit the Axminster cartridge filter with cleaning paddles or an over size bag say 1.5m high. Has anyone tried a larger higher spec bag if so how did it effect the air flow rate?

 

[ScouseKev]

One thing i have noticed....it cuts down the suction significantly!!

 

[harvestbarn]

That was why I put mine within the collector. l came to the conclusion the aim was to keep the filter bag in as clean a condition for as long as possible and be able to rejuvenate the bag without having to strip it all down. If the fibre filter bag is given a blow over with an airline then the Thein separator is blown off a big improvement in suction results. A half face particulate mask is worn when this task is performed.

I was originally going to make a cyclone but came to the conclusion I was just putting the waste into a different probably smaller container. There was also going to be pressure loss which ever option was selected. The only down side to my selection is that if I accidentally suck up an item during clean up it will pass through the fan paddles.

 

[beech1948]

I use 2x Record DX4000 for DC. I have a long narrow workshop so one at each end. The eastern one has a Thien separator which works exceptionally well. They are in a sound reducing cabinet.

Initial problems were a series of small leaks at pipe joints which a very sticky and elastic tape made good. I found that attention had to be made to the shape and positioning of the air inlet with time spent fairing it in to the sides of the separator. I had to experiment with the depth of the outlet pipe a little to find the sweet spot.

Having a transparent side to ther separator helped to see where the saw dust was circulating and how dust was extracted towards the DC.

The DX4000 provides a 3 stage approach to clearing the dust through its filters. I have not found any filters better than the Record supplied ones yet.

The second Dx4000 does not at present work well with the Thein separator....I have no idea why as it is a copy of the first one in all details....buggerrrrr it. I'm thinking now that I might buy one of the £30 Ebay mini cyclone type things and see if that works BUT I built this separator and I want to make it work as well as the first.....time for a little disassemby and rebuild I think.

 

[ScouseKev]

Thanks again for the replies.

Harvestbarn.... how do you put the separator within the extractor? Can't quite picture it....can you post a photo please. Thanks

 

[harvestbarn]

Hi ScouseKev
At the moment my workshop has all the machines covered as I am using it to paint and HVLP spay items so not keen to take the filter out however after a quick web search I found a relevant post with pictures at http://www.worldofwoodforum.com/vb/show ... -for-HF-DC I saw an article in Fine Woodworking prior to making mine. I screwed mine made of 18mm MDF with reasonably long screw where it met the outer ring these are behind the bag locking band in the picture below. I then put one support in the centre using some 6mm steel threaded zinc plated rod and a shaped washers drilling through the steel cone this allowed easy adjustment and the surplus was cut off. You can also see the hole I made for cleaning with the air gun, this has nozzles these fit through and an air stream can be sprayed across the separator plate.

 

[ScouseKev]

Much better now ive sealed it and adjusted the height of the internal duct.