The US Jab

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MikeJhn

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Why on earth would anyone want to holiday in the EU? It sounds like it's total chaos over there, and I speak as a vehement anti-Brexiter. The various government heads, Macron in particular, (who needs a good kick up the arris), have shown themselves up to be total incompetents. There's no way on earth I'll be going abroad in the foreseeable future. Plenty of nice places to visit here.
The problem for some 650,000 Brits are they bought holiday homes in France as I did prior to ever thinking we would leave the EU and no thought of a pandemic every happening, have not been there in over a year, but need to get there to finish some renovation work so we can sell, we also not have the Schengen agreement to contend with, witch puts paid to long stays in the Sun.
 

Amateur

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I just wonder if the EU stockpile of vaccine hasn't been used because they can't make up their minds which country to send it to?
Whichever country they choose would be seen as being biased against the rest?
I can see the squabbling now.
 

D_W

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They suffer from the same thing as NASA does now. There's no penalty for doing nothing and pretending to be careful but attempting to do something innovative that results in a mistake or inequity can get you fired. Look at the whole blood clot thing. How many people have blood clots at a background level and how many die of covid. What's the sensible move, to stop vaccinating? I don't think so. What's the death rate in the vulnerable population from covid more than two weeks after the first shot?
 

D_W

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The whole system preserves the place and paycheck for chickens and punishes reasonable risk. That's the difference between 1965 NASA and now, and why subcontractors need to do their work for them.
 

Chris152

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The problem for some 650,000 Brits are they bought holiday homes in France as I did prior to ever thinking we would leave the EU and no thought of a pandemic every happening, have not been there in over a year, but need to get there to finish some renovation work so we can sell, we also not have the Schengen agreement to contend with, witch puts paid to long stays in the Sun.
Mike - apparently you're going to be allowed to travel for precisely the reason you describe:
'People will be allowed to leave the UK to prepare a second home for sale or rent, according to new coronavirus regulations coming into force later this month.'
The article's critical of allowing it, presumably because people can use it as an excuse to go on hols (I've not read the whole article), but it should help in your situation?
 

D_W

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It's called litigation

Generally, governments and their entities are legally immune from it. I think it's more like self preservation in those worlds. When is the last time you saw a major health official or NASA official get sued over an aggressive good faith effort?

Interestingly, the private companies that are more likely to get sued are much more aggressive about getting things done.
 

MikeJhn

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Mike - apparently you're going to be allowed to travel for precisely the reason you describe:
'People will be allowed to leave the UK to prepare a second home for sale or rent, according to new coronavirus regulations coming into force later this month.'
The article's critical of allowing it, presumably because people can use it as an excuse to go on hols (I've not read the whole article), but it should help in your situation?
All true except the French do not allow that for a reason to travel to France in fact their latest Government documentation specifically states:

The requirement for pressing grounds does not apply if you are travelling from one of the following countries:
Australia, Israel, Japan, New Zealand, Singapore, South Korea, United Kingdom.
Your trip must however meet one of the exception criteria as listed on the exempted travel certificate and you will be subject to the health control measures below (RT-PCR tests, sworn statement and self-isolation).

So not allowed into France if you are traveling from the UK.
 

MikeJhn

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All true except the French do not allow that for a reason to travel to France in fact their latest Government documentation specifically states:

The requirement for pressing grounds does not apply if you are travelling from one of the following countries:
Australia, Israel, Japan, New Zealand, Singapore, South Korea, United Kingdom.
Your trip must however meet one of the exception criteria as listed on the exempted travel certificate and you will be subject to the health control measures below (RT-PCR tests, sworn statement and self-isolation).

So not allowed into France if you are traveling from the UK.
Things change quick around here now days, you now are allowed into France its just the expensive hotel quarantine needed in the UK when you return, oh and the requirement for an expensive PCR test on the way out within 72hrs of arriving in France, isn't this fun, think I will stay home.
 

Terry - Somerset

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Travel rules change almost daily on a country by country basis and planning an overseas holiday is simply not possible.

On a purely personal level I would like the freedom to choose whether I go to France, Italy, Spain etc for a break. Would I go in the next few weeks - probably not. Their problems with a 3rd wave of Covid will make any holiday very compromised probably with internal travel restrictions, hospitaity closures and other constraints.

But I am not convinced by the risks of foreign travel rhetoric:
  • a pragmatic, but not necessarily moral, concern is for the UK first, places that I may visit or relate to second, and the rest of the world a long way third.
  • if the vaccine reduces serious virus impacts by 90%+, why is there concern about visitors or returning UK tourists being infected - their infection will either not spread or cause little damage.
  • if a visitor has a mutated virus and the vaccine is ineffective against that mutation and the mutation causes serious disease and death there is a real risk.
  • as has been demonstrated by other mutations, if the most effective controls will not ultimately stop global transmission
The argument that the world needs to defeat Covid before we are all safe may be intellectually attractive, but would require the virus to be at very low levels worldwide, with mechanisms in place to monitor and react to any new outbreak.

This would consign the UK (and most of the developed world) to 2/3/4 years more restrictions and constraints. This is economically implausible. We need to accept that there are risks and manage them - we can't eliminate them entirely.
 
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