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The slope widens - A German Smoother

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jimi43

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Oh dear...what am I thinking of....



The bootfair today was a virtually rained off nightmare but I had to leave with this little teutonic beauty.

The horn needs regluing...



...the iron needs some major surgery....



...to remove light rust! :mrgreen:



...but I know the iron maker at least....



It is "resting" in Corro-Dip at the moment...for the next 24 hours at least...so once I get the iron shaving I will be able to post some comments about performance....but at the moment...



...I can just sit and admire it....I don't normally like these European planes but this one works for me on so many levels and I have a feeling it's a bit "special"....we shall see.

Guten abend! :wink:

Jim
 

jimi43

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Okie dokie....(good job I did German at school....





Image courtesy Holzerken Museum, Germany

Gebrüder Busch, Remscheid

Firmengeschichte

Gegründet 1780.
'Fabrikation und Großhandel in Qualitäts-Werkzeugen Marke "Hirsch"' (siehe Katalog von 1938)
Als Gründer wird Friedrich Wilhelm Busch (1785-1857) angegeben, der aber zu diesem Zeitpunkt noch gar nicht geboren war. Die Anfänge der Firma gehen also wohl auf dessen Vater Johann Wilhelm Busch (1740-1824, Beitelschmied in Remscheid) zurück.

Die Firma existiert noch und gehört heute zur Firmengruppe Wilh. Schmitt & Comp..


Busch brothers, Remscheid

History

Founded in 1780th
'Manufacturing and wholesale trade in quality tools brand "Stag"' (see catalog 1938)

As founder Friedrich Wilhelm Busch (1785-1857) stated, but was not even born at this time, the beginnings of the company were go back to his father, Johann Wilhelm Busch (1740-1824, Beitelschmied in Remscheid).

The company still exists and now belongs to the Wilh. Schmitt & Co. group ..
...and it would appear that this particular mark was registered in 1895....so spot on with the dating!

This is fun! :mrgreen:

Jim
 

AndyT

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Go on then, spill the beans. I've just wasted 20 minutes or so searching Wolfgang's site and the Belgian Tool museum, and come up with nothing. What have you found?

I did find this intriguing link to a German book on old tools, on Google Books, which has a picture (p108) of one of those double irons with a screw thread adjuster, marked Hirsch Garantie, with a stag, and dated to C19th, but that was about it.

I know that it's wrong to assume that every plane with a horn is a scrub, and yours has a straight edge to the blade, so presumably it's a smoother. Probably made of hornbeam. Rather a nice one!
 

jimi43

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AndyT":yc2cjyhe said:
Go on then, spill the beans. I've just wasted 20 minutes or so searching Wolfgang's site and the Belgian Tool museum, and come up with nothing. What have you found?

I did find this intriguing link to a German book on old tools, on Google Books, which has a picture (p108) of one of those double irons with a screw thread adjuster, marked Hirsch Garantie, with a stag, and dated to C19th, but that was about it.

I know that it's wrong to assume that every plane with a horn is a scrub, and yours has a straight edge to the blade, so presumably it's a smoother. Probably made of hornbeam. Rather a nice one!
Spot on again there Andy!...the mark is the Stag and the FWB in the roundel indicates Friedrich Wilhelm Busch...the father of the brothers. I think that the mark was after his death and appears to be used by the Busch brothers in memorial of their father.

I agree on the hornbeam...and I thought the glue had given on the horn but now I think that it is meant to move...it is tight. It can be angled for left and right handed...an intriguing design.

More later when we find more info...but it certainly is very tactile!

Jim
 

Alf

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This would seem as good a place as any to put a link to this German tool mark site (chisel orientated, though it is) which I've been meaning to share for ages. Although Wolfgang's brilliant site would have been my first port of call too (via Google translation, I admit!).

I dunno, Jim, have you found anything at a car boot yet that will allow you to clock the speed you're making down The Slope? :lol:
 

AndyT

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Thanks for that handy resource Alf - duly bookmarked. But it still doesn't have the answer to Jim's obelisk plough plane blade, even in the "Unbekannte" section!
 

jimi43

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Alf":240zzl5a said:
........I dunno, Jim, have you found anything at a car boot yet that will allow you to clock the speed you're making down The Slope? :lol:
I did a few years back....



...if all else fails I can fly over the piste!



Annie was not that chuffed when I came home one day with a Cesna flight simulator cockpit....women! (OOPS! :mrgreen: )

:wink:

Jim
 

jimi43

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Ok..to get back down to earth for just a moment...... :mrgreen:

Yesterday, as I was working (and missing the grand Wadkin Workshop Timewarp move! #-o )....I decided not to waste time and stuck the metalwork of this gem into CORRO DIP...my major weapon in the armour against the dreaded brown stuff - RUST!

So...after running the gauntlet of my dear suffering wife...I snuck into the kitchen...nicked a suitable Tupperware container and half-filled it with CORRO DIP and stuck it in the microwave to heat it up (as recommended).

The iron, cap iron and screw were soaked in this bath overnight...and today removed and scrubbed with a brass brush...



Quite impressive eh!?

The cap iron has some deeper rust and needs a further dip tonight...but the iron came out brilliantly...I think you will agree...



One interesting thing about this German iron is that you can clearly see the soft/hard lamination transition...



....on the side and on the face....



Even on the bevel....



...the clear delineation of metal colour is visible...and the hardened insert goes only up to the end of the slot...which is when the life of the iron is over.

With the iron (see the extra rust) and the cap and screw in the bath...I am off to work.

More tomorrow when I will sharpen the iron and try her out.

I can't wait! 8)

Jim
 

jimi43

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Ok......the iron and cap have had just about enough pickling to last a lifetime so it was out from the CORRO-DIP...a bit of a brush over to get rid of the residue...a wash and careful dry on the radiator and then off to sharpen the edge.

I have to say that these old laminated irons are a real joy to work with...quick to create a perfect bevel and seconds to hone on my old Belgian coticule with a little tickle on superfine diamonds.

Grabbing some old local wood...rough as nails, I set about seeing how smooth I could get it with (horn-rimmed) Herwald (his new name)....

Pretty impressive when all said and done....



...well, baby's bum smooth really...

And for those of us who actually like shavings...



...that beautiful plane "whizzzz" noise produced loads...regularly, evenly and easily.

Strange holding position...which is a bit difficult to master at first and I have a feeling European benches must be a lot higher...the grip requires bending down quite a bit for standard British bench height.

After I confirmed that it worked like a dream...I decided to try to do more research in my limited library...I was sure I had seen it somewhere in the many books I have on planes...

DOH!!!! (homer)

You know sometimes something is just staring you in the face....



...and I even searched through Garrett's brilliant book from front to back too before I spotted it! #-o

Ok...ok....before someone say it...it's a toothing version....but the same body shape. :wink:

I think I will just watch British Superbikes now...how on EARTH did I miss that! :mrgreen:

Cheers guys and gals....

Jim

PS....rain stopped play on the fourth bootfair....might stop by this afternoon for the last chance but I doubt it!
 

Richard T

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Looks very good Jim.
I've been tempted to have a go with a one of them ever since I saw Frank Klaus flying around a drawer he'd just made with one.

There was one to be had at the market yesterday but it looked newish from a distance and was on Mr Expensive's stall so I kept that distance. :|
 

János

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Dear Jim,

This tool is a standard German pattern double iron smoothing plane, (and as far as I am able to judge from the photos a narrow one (45mm?)). The horn must be glued in place. The standard position is the "for right-handers only" one. (There was no such animal as "left-handed cabinetmaker", simply, because each bench was "right-handed" in the furniture workshops, so the journeymen were obliged to adapt...)
These old German laminated irons are really good, I have a few old Weiss an Ulmia planes, and the irons are far better than their modern day counterparts. The "long screw cap iron" is the best design for a wooden bench plane, in my opinion, but was patent protected, and not in production these days.

Your tool was well cared for in the past: it has a glued on sole, or it seems to...

Have a nice day,

János
 

jimi43

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Hi Richard

I tell you something my friend...I had another go at honing the iron last night in a windswept Kent...using the "hone across the bevel" technique. The laminated hard piece definitely takes a keen edge and the softer rear part of the bevel is so easy to grind correctly. All in all...a very nice combination.

I ran a few more tests and was even more pleased. It took a bit of getting useful being a light little blighter, far lighter than the infills I am used to using daily...but once you get it...the thing fair sings along!

I would get one if you can mate...I'm glad I ventured out to other shores!

Hi Janos

Thank you for your experienced comments and confirmation on the horn. It is now glued in place with a righthanded bias with hide glue...I thought I ought to be traditional!

It is wider than it looks mate...60mm exactly and as I said above...the iron is indeed gorgeous....I do wish we still made steel irons in the traditional way...I guess the laminated Japanese ones are the closest but the added billet on the tip is a very elegant solution indeed.....I shall be getting more as they surface...that's a certainty!

Cheers guys and thanks again for the information.

Jim
 

yetloh

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jimi43":2f52x7oe said:
Gebrüder Busch, Remscheid
You probably know that Remscheid is (or, at least, was) the Sheffield of Germany, so I'm not surprised it is good. I'm a big fan of laminated blades, saves the bother of messing about with double bevels.

Jim
 

Cheshirechappie

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jimi43":15yiq49i said:
...the iron is indeed gorgeous....I do wish we still made steel irons in the traditional way...
Jim
Er - Clifton?

I suppose one reason that we don't make laminated irons these days is that the relative cost of tool steels has dropped, so the need for an expensive forge-welding operation has been removed. It's quicker, and now cheaper, to buy a larger piece of O1 or whatever and make the iron from the solid.
 

Corneel

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When you ever find a "reform hobel" be sure to buy it. That's the German Ueber smoother, usually with a lignum vitae sole and an adjustable mouth, and close to 50 degrees bedding angle. My Ulmia reform hobel has a rather thin blade, but it works perfectly. Well until I damaged the LV insert. That stuff is hard but also a bit britle. I really must repair it soon, because I miss that plane.
 

Shrubby

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Corneel - absolutely right . I work with a 1930's Ulmia reform hobel .It doesn't have the bling factor of LN/LV or turbo-gadget adjusters like the Primus and is easily overlooked.
Matt
 

jimi43

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That's really spooky because today I got a gorgeous little 1 1/2 beech smoother (more later!) and it performs very well but has a bit of a rough mouth and I was going to resole that with LV....might just do it now!

Corneel...if you want me to help fix your LV insert let me know.

Jim
 

woodbloke

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Corneel":qgcqhhwz said:
When you ever find a "reform hobel" be sure to buy it. That's the German Ueber smoother, usually with a lignum vitae sole and an adjustable mouth, and close to 50 degrees bedding angle. My Ulmia reform hobel has a rather thin blade, but it works perfectly. Well until I damaged the LV insert. That stuff is hard but also a bit britle. I really must repair it soon, because I miss that plane.
You mean:



...like this one? A few £'s from Penny Farthing Tools and then refurbed. Nice, but I never use it (and it's not for sale :mrgreen: ) - Rob
 

Corneel

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Yes mine is like that too. Not so nice and shiny though.

Here is mine:



And the damage to the mouth. On trying to repair I managed to make it worse. The grain direction of the insert was the other wat around from the rest of the sole. Minus points for Ulmia on that one. I will just make a new insert, no problem, just need to find some time. I am in the middle of a kitchen rebuild so it will have to wait a bit.

 

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