The seasoning of a green newbie (hand tool advice)

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HeathRobinson

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13 Dec 2007
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Wiltshire, UK
Boy am I glad to have found these forums. I’ve recently resigned in order to start my own business. This resulted in me finally having some time to myself, and looking around the house I’ve noticed just how little I’ve really done until now. Too much personal time wasted making bosses richer and the age of instant flat pack furniture have done much to damage the ingenuity I naturally possessed as a youngster not to mention the look of my home! I used to love working with my hands and Miss. Robinson and I have decided on a few projects that will let me do just that.

As our home is small and lacking in storage we are talking about shelving and boxes to start with. However, on the other end of the scale we have aspirations to make things like a custom sofa bed, some custom trellis work to pretty up the tiny garden and, my personal favorite, a display cabinet come side board come – are you sitting tightly? – woodworking bench. Yes that’s right, the only space I have to work in is the lounge so multi use design and hand tools are the way to go for me. Miss. Robinson is fine with a side board that is also used as a bench so long as it’s designed so that the crockery doesn’t get damaged. I love her very much! Hehehe

With all this in mind I took stock of the tools I had amassed over the 6 years that I have been living in my own home. They consisted of a claw hammer, junior hacksaw, two C-clamps, a portable work table, a hobby knife, some sand paper and wood glue. How sad is that? Especially when I own up and tell you I’ve recently worked out that the hacksaw blade is meant for cutting metal. Pathetic really but I still managed to trim the trunk of the Christmas tree every year with that tiny blunted hacksaw and judicious use of the claw hammer as a ‘trunk destroyer’.

This situation clearly needed to be rectified before commencing on the new projects. Accepting that it is wisest to buy new tools only as and when they are needed I produced a design for an introductory project based around a 9x70mm pine plank from Focus. It’s a tissue box. This is my draft for it.


draftbox.jpg


I then mentally rehearsed the project and decided on the tools I would need. For marking out I knew I would at least need a try square. Almost all cuts appear to be across grain so a decent cross cut saw would be needed. The opening for the tissues might be decorative so perhaps a coping saw too. I would use one of Miss. Robinson’s old belts as a cramp for the box during glue up and a sanding block with various grades of sandpaper would be required to get a good finish.

I made the assumption that the plank would be planed all round and therefore wouldn’t require any planing to true it up. How wrong I was, but more on that in a minute. I went out and bought the plank of pine, an engineer’s try square conforming to BS 939, a beech wood mallet and a bottle of boiled linseed oil with the intention of soaking my mallet in it (something I read on the internet). The mallet isn’t necessary for this project but I figured I would get it anyway.

Having acquired the affliction known as “beautiful tool envy” by looking at some of the pretty but expensive saws available on the internet and being completely disgusted by B&Q’s offerings I ordered one of the cheaper Lynx brand gent’s saws from Flinn Garlick Saws. An alright deal for a new saw that I can resharpen I think. It doesn’t have the mirror finish of the more expensive offerings but I sorted that out with a bit of 1200 wet and dry, lots of elbow grease and brasso. The brass on my saw is now near enough mirror finish so I can admire myself in it while I cut wood in the future. Haha. Later I’ll probably upgrade the handle too as I am not satisfied with the factory finish. That is for another posting though…

fewtools.jpg


Once I had all the tools and wood together I set about measuring and marking up. Straight away I noticed a rather extreme cupping in the plank of wood. The advice on the internet is to plane the board true and flat again but planes are expensive for a newbie so I decided to continue anyway and take what comes. I’m sure many will recognize that this was not a wise decision. I managed to cut all four sides and associated cuts for the joints quite accurately but the cupping came back to bite me when my joints wouldn’t fit properly. A bit of sanding in the joints roughly sorted that out and I cramped the whole lot up with Miss. Robinson’s old belt. The belt worked well and the next morning I ran downstairs to find a very nicely glued up framework.

It was time to turn my attention to the top of the box. The 70mm plank isn’t wide enough for the top of this design so I started researching how to join planks to form wider panels. Oh dear, those expensive planes were recommended again to sort out the cup in the wood and to true the edges before joining the planks. I was desperate to get on with the project and headed back out to Focus. £7.19 total for a smoothing and a block plane! This deal seemed so good it blinded me to common sense. I hurried the planes home and immediately the problems started. There was no way to fine tune the position of the blade other than by moving it with my hands. An hour or so later and plenty of butchered wood in my wake I had the planes working. By that I mean I could hack of a chunk just thin enough that it curled just like the shavings I’ve seen more experienced wood workers produce with their planes but was probably thousands of times thicker. To my surprise I managed to get the edges of two bits of pine straight enough to joint and glued them up to form the top. Looking around for things to do while I waited for the glue to set I decided to try and get the corners of my box razor sharp and then chamfered using the block plane. Well, I couldn’t push the plane across the face so I forced it and it dug in. My box sides now looked like I had used a cheese grater on them. Angry at myself I tried again with a bit more force and every joint on the box broke apart. I was so annoyed, I took those planes straight back to Focus the very next morning for a refund.

There are so many lessons here. You get what you pay for. The right tool for the job. Always true up your wood before working with it. Patience is a virtue and gluing end grain to anything does not a strong joint make! I am sure the more experienced here could point out many more.

To try and salvage at least some of a bad situation I decided to try a different approach and created a rough miter cutting jig out of scrap. Then I cut miters into the now separated sides and joined them up that way. It turned out really rough to say the least. Not exactly the invisible miter joints that I had hoped for but I am sure you can see this in the picture.

badmiter.jpg


I looked up the proper way to do miters and it seems I should use a plane along with a shooting board to make them really accurate. The planes again! They are starting to haunt my dreams. Unfortunately because I’ve changed the type of joint and in so doing had to saw off the old joints the internal dimensions of the box are no longer suitable for holding tissues and the cheese grated wood is horribly disfigured. So now I have a badly constructed frame of a cheese grated box with nothing to show for it but experience :)

So then. Here I am, asking to borrow some of your hard earned experience. I want to attempt this project again and Miss. Robinson has OK’d a mild spend on a plane or two perhaps from Ray Iles’ Old Tool Store as their soles are reground flat. I’ve said that I would attempt to build my own planes from wood in future but needed these planes in the very least before I could even do that. Luckily the recursive nature of this problem was not lost on her. I would be interested to know what planes are the correct types to use to get rid of cupping and for truing up wood as well as for joining edges to form wider boards. On the subject of shooting boards does anyone know of plans or even pictures on the internet of shooting boards that will help me make better miter joints? Miter joints sound easier to me than dovetails or the sort of box joints I originally tried. Am I correct in thinking miters are alright as a beginner joint for the corners of a small box? Perhaps I am wrong in thinking a box at all is a newbie project. Is there any sense in a newbie attempting to make his own wooden planes?

My humblest apologies for the extremely wordy post but I thought more context and a bit of story might make what must be a very common request for advice a bit more interesting. Perhaps other newbies will see a bit of themselves in this story too.

All the best,

HeathRobinson

PS. Is it because I am a new user that my pictures won't show?
 
HR wrote:
So then. Here I am, asking to borrow some of your hard earned experience. I want to attempt this project again and Miss. Robinson has OK’d a mild spend on a plane or two perhaps from Ray Iles’ Old Tool Store as their soles are reground flat. I’ve said that I would attempt to build my own planes from wood in future but needed these planes in the very least before I could even do that. Luckily the recursive nature of this problem was not lost on her. I would be interested to know what planes are the correct types to use to get rid of cupping and for truing up wood as well as for joining edges to form wider boards. On the subject of shooting boards does anyone know of plans or even pictures on the internet of shooting boards that will help me make better miter joints? Miter joints sound easier to me than dovetails or the sort of box joints I originally tried. Am I correct in thinking miters are alright as a beginner joint for the corners of a small box? Perhaps I am wrong in thinking a box at all is a newbie project. Is there any sense in a newbie attempting to make his own wooden planes?

HR - a very Christmasy welcome to the forum. Ray Isles planes are very good and can be relied on for a quality purchase. Generally speaking, a longer plane is needed for shooting edge joints, but for a smaller job like the one you're doing, a No5 ought to be more than adequate and if Ray has one then so much the better, strongly recommend that you stay away from cutting tools (planes and maybe chisels) bought from 'sheds' (except if they're Stanley knife blades :)) Lots of excellent stuff on shooting boards here Regarding jointing at the corners of the box, mitres are probably one of the hardest joints to get spot on, a simple corner-halving would be easier to make. Planes are fairly straight forward to make, some good information might be found on this site lots of good info here in any case. Hope of some help - Rob
 
HeathRobinson":ld42g117 said:
....I produced a design for an introductory project based around a 9x70mm pine plank from Focus. It’s a tissue box. This is my draft for it.
draftbox.jpg

..... Later I’ll probably upgrade the handle too as I am not satisfied with the factory finish. That is for another posting though…

fewtools.jpg


.... It turned out really rough to say the least. Not exactly the invisible miter joints that I had hoped for but I am sure you can see this in the picture.

badmiter.jpg


I....
PS. Is it because I am a new user that my pictures won't show?

Hi HR welcome to the forum, the image problem is just down to anti spam software, it will leave you alone after a while.
 
Welcome to the forum, your pics have been stopped by the moderator but after a few posts all will be well. You certainly are starting of with a very basic kit of tools to say the least, but I love your honesty. To join boards you do really need a decent plane. To join long boards not surprisingly you need a long plane, lets say a no 6 or 7 but they are very expensive, new around £ 200 to 250. However for starting out I would suggest a No4 bench plane, this can be used for smoothing and if your careful used for straightening boards say 600mm long. The No4 is much easier to handle, and I would stay away from the specialist planes until you are competent with a No 4. If you are convinced that this is a hobby that you are going to continue with, then buying the best will pay in the long run. However new No4's can still be expensive and you could buy say a Clifton from Axminster for about a £170 or an Axminsters own No4 for around £21. Why the difference the Clifton will work straight out of the box after honing the blade, will be a joy to use, last a lifetime and more. The Axminster will require a lot of work, the sole of the plane will need to be flattened, the blade sharpened, various other parts will need trueing up, and it still will not be anywhere near as good as the Clifton. Or you can buy as you have indicated a second hand plane, and if it is a good one you may be paying around £60 to £80, or perhaps even less for a Stanley or Record in average condition, but could be more if its really special. If you take a chance with a cheap plane the following could happen, it could put you off for ever if it is a particularly bad one, or it could help you understand the need to buy something better, you could be lucky and it works ok on your projects with say softwood, but you could be very disappointed if you start to work in hardwood etc, the choice is really yours. You need to read up on planes particularly sharpening (search on this forum theres plenty on this subject). One other option is to to locate a member of the forum that is near by and if you were to ask nicely, they may be prepared to give you some advice and show you the basic problems, challenges and proper use of hand planes. I hope this does not put you off but I am trying to be honest, you really do get what you pay for. I should also mention that you can upgrade a basic No 4 with a better blade which can make a considerable difference. I expect others will be along to give you advice. Hope you find something half decent and don't rush in to buying the first one that you see take some time to consider ask the forum before you buy, we are here to help. You can search here for benches also.
 
Welcome HR - an inspiring first post :D
I'd spend some time playing with the cheapo planes you bought - you'd be surprised how much you can learn. And some way of sharpening them is useful - makes all the difference.
Best regards
Philly :D
 
Have you ever visited Bristol Design (Perry Road, Bristol)? It's an Aladdin's cave of second-hand tools, with plenty of planes of various kinds at not unreasonable prices (and unlike a certain online auction site you get to check them over before you buy). I'd also strongly recommend that you buy a copy of Thomas Lie-Nielsen's book on sharpening tools ("Taunton's Complete Illustrated Guide to Sharpening").
 
Welcome HR.
Spend the holiday looking around markets, junk stores and charity shops. Your money will go a hell of lot further and any restoration work will teach you a great deal about tools and improve you appreciation of them.

Roy,
 
Hi HR and welcome

Play with the planes and the skills will develop - a few simple jigs might help too :wink:
 
Good morning and thank you for the warm welcome!

So Ray Isles is good for buying a plane over the internet and Bristol Design is good for buying one in person. It sounds as if a smoothing (4) or jack (5) would be right for this small job and that a good second hand plane in need of a little TLC is the way to go.

I personally think I should go with a used smoothing plane. My theory, in addition to the advice of it being easier to handle, is that it's action of removing wood sounds slower than a jack plane and is therefore better for starters. I have used a stanley of some kind back when I took woodworking classes in school for a couple of years but I feel as if I am starting from zero here.

I live near Melksham in Wiltshire and my preference is for seeing and feeling the plane before buying so hearing about Bristol Design makes me quite happy. I'll probably pay them a visit this weekend. In the meanwhile I'll research restoration of planes and what to look for in a potential restoration project along with how to sharpen and fine tune them. I have very few tools so if restoring a plane requires many more then it might be better for me to go with a newer albeit seemingly more expensive plane.

Thanks for the links to the shooting board information. I now remember using a very basic one back in wood working class. I looked up the corner halving joint that was mentioned as better for a beginner and I agree that it looks easier than a miter. However, when I translate the examples I've found online into the situation at the corners of my particular design I arrive back at, well, my original design. I appreciate my pictures weren't showing at the time you responded woodbloke, but perhaps you could advise whether I am correct in thinking that my original design utilised corner halving joints now that CHJ has helped get my pictures posted.

With regard to the planes that I did, briefly, own. I returned them to Focus in less than 24 hours after looking around to see what the features were of the better quality planes. I found that the Focus smoothing plane had a blade that would only fit with the bevel facing up which is, apparently, incorrect for a bench plane. It was definitely sold as a smoothing plane though. Both the smoothing and block plane's only control was a screw clamp to hold the blade in place. Both planes were thickly powder coated with no straight surfaces which further complicated the adjustments I was trying to make to the blade position by hand especially as the mouth of both planes was obscured by the coating. I couldn't see how without some kind of depth adjustment control I would be able to reliably get thin shavings of wood simply by guessing a position by hand and then trying to secure the blade in that position by turning the clamping screw with my other hand. The best I could manage was to hack off some thick shavings across the thinnest edge of the wood. I therefore took the planes back, they and I were no longer good partners :lol:

Thanks again for the advice so far,
HR
 
HR, you can cut just as finely with a jack plane as you can with a smoother, it all depends how you set it up. I believe that David Charlesworth recommends starting with a 5 or 5 1/2 - take a look at his website, http://www.davidcharlesworth.co.uk, his dvds and articles are brilliant. You might also like to look up Garrett Hack's book on hand planes (contains advice on fettling amongst other things).
 
Heath,

Some good advice here.

Only thing I can add is don't buy wood from the sheds; its generally crap & expensive for what it is.
A sows ear it will remain, regardless of your skills.

Personally I'm a big fan of reclaim wood, but as the SWMBO would tell you that is because I'm a tight git. You will be amazed the difference in any project you do when you use better wood
 
Welcome to the tight gits club Lurker. Thousands of tonnes of timber are scrapped and burned every year and some of the old stuff is magic! It's the only way to get some timbers that are rare now as well, if only they didn't plaster everything with dark French polish!
By the way, how do you dismantle a nuclear reactor safely, a set of very long spanners? :)

Roy
 
Hello Heath, welcome aboard!

It sounds to me as though you are approaching this in entirely the right way; with an open mind and not shy to ask for help, which is what the forum is all about.

The only thing I would add is to try and get along to one of the shows and try out a brand new top of the range plane. Mick Hudson from Clifton tends to bring along a full set of demonstrators to each show, Mike Hancock from Classic Hand Tools is your man for LN and the Brimarc stand will probably have a couple of Veritas planes you can try. Alternatively (or also) do get hold of a couple of David Charlesworth's excellent DVD's.

This will at least give you an idea of what a good handplane is capable of, and what features to look for in a secondhand one. Bedrock pattern frogs, for example, are rarer in the secondhand market than Bailey pattern. They were the first thing to be sacraficed in the postwar quality decline, so if you find an old bedrock, the rest of it was probably made right too. All of the premium manufacturers now use bedrock pattern (which was Leonard Bailey's original design before Stanley insisted he design a cheap version for them and then had the cheek to name the lesser design after him and claim the original as their own.)

For an all rounder, look at No.5's, No.5-1/2's and No.6's, you will be amazed at what delicate work these large planes can do. Don't be shy to invest money in a good one, they hold their monetary value extremely well but hours spent trying to fettle a dog are gone forever.
 
matthewwh":25blqs38 said:
if you find an old bedrock, the rest of it was probably made right too. All of the premium manufacturers now use bedrock pattern (which was Leonard Bailey's original design before Stanley insisted he design a cheap version for them and then had the cheek to name the lesser design after him and claim the original as their own.)

Are you sure? I didn't think Bailey had anything to do with the bedrock frog.
 
Hi Jake,

Typically, I can't find the flippin' article now to give you the reference, but apparently the full bearing surfaces of the bedrock design were a Bailey idea way back in the 'Bailey Boston' days. Once Bailey was taken over by Stanley R & L Co they wouldn't let him develop it.

It wasn't until after he left the company that they came out with the Stanley Bedrock, which originally didn't have the facility to adjust the frog without first removing the blade. Even when the external frog adjustment bit was added, it wasn't an original Stanley idea but an improved version of the Sargent system for doing the same job (just different enough to keep the patent lawyers at bay.)

It's a fascinating period to study in the development of planes and also in how businesses react to periods of rapid innovation. Often the inventors are left high and dry by big companies who can rapidly develop a concept, shimmy past the patent protection system and bring it to market. Frank Whittle's Jet engine being another example of a similar situation.

I'll keep looking and let you know if I find it.
 
Ah, with the extra detail it's now ringing faint bells - the handplane book, maybe.
 
quote from the blood and gore website

In a world where good enough usually ain't good enough, Stanley decided to produce another series of metal bench planes, called Bed Rock planes. These planes are, for all intents and purposes, nothing but a variation of the more popular Bailey series. They all have an adjustable frog, the brass depth adjustment knob, the lateral lever, a lever cap, rosewood knob and tote, etc., just like the Bailey's. The key difference between the two designs is found in the way the frog mates with the bottom casting. For such a seemingly minor difference, the Bed Rock planes were offered at a premium over the Bailey's, and it was a design that never seemed to be very static nor nearly as popular as Stanley's wildly successful Bailey line.

http://supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan15.htm

best regards
Jim
 
I've got a Stanley Bedrock No4, (recovered from our local Council tip would you believe), and frankly, with the usual lousy Stanley iron I've never noticed any difference from the non Bedrock Frog.
They all improve, in my experience, with a better iron.
 
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