The MA thread - AKA Everyday Fan Vault Construction for Beginners.
- Thread starter Adam W.
- Start date
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A bit of progress.
It's up on its legs now with the first rib sorted.
It's all held together with dovetails and the ribs will be pegged into place once the spandrel is tennoned in etc, etc....
I'll have to sort out the relationship between the end of the rib and the spandrel to enable a nice transition between the curvature of the conoid and the flat area of the spandrel.
It's up on its legs now with the first rib sorted.
It's all held together with dovetails and the ribs will be pegged into place once the spandrel is tennoned in etc, etc....
I'll have to sort out the relationship between the end of the rib and the spandrel to enable a nice transition between the curvature of the conoid and the flat area of the spandrel.
paulrbarnard
Established Member
Really pleased to see an update. I was worried other activities were going to get in the way.
Thanks Paul.
Things did get in the way, as I've now got two wainscot chairs to make for Knole House and I've been on a jolly to the hidden parts of Westminster Abbey with their Clerk of Works, which was very interesting indeed.
It was probably a good thing to not rush in and try to complete it, as there are shed loads of related joints all happening at the same time and they threw away the instruction manual ages ago.
A little bit more progress.
This joint has taken me ages to work out, as I needed to ensure that I got it right first time so that I didn't have to re-make anything major.
I have to trap the spandrel onto the sub frame, so that it doesn't fall out when it's turned the right way up.
This little bit of rib drops through a mortice in the applied block and gets pegged to the frame along with the ends of the ribs. It's a common detail on timber framed buildings which have full length ribs on the principal rafters.
It allows for a gap between the ribs, which makes them easy to fit one at a time instead of having to fit everything all at the same time and it lets me take the spandrel off when it comes time to fit all the other ribs.
So that's the first dry fit and I can now see how much I need to drop the spandrel so that the centre lines all meet up.
It needs to drop about 1/4" to be right and I can just flip it over and plane the back of the block off. I'll have to make a new insert, but the first one was slightly wrong as the tennon needs to be longer anyway, so it's no great shakes.
These truncated ribs create a gothic arch on the sides of the vault, which answers the question of why is there a gothic arch mixed up with a vault with three centre transverse arches ? So it's not just because they fancied gothic windows and made both sides match, which is what I thought at the beginning.
This joint has taken me ages to work out, as I needed to ensure that I got it right first time so that I didn't have to re-make anything major.
I have to trap the spandrel onto the sub frame, so that it doesn't fall out when it's turned the right way up.
This little bit of rib drops through a mortice in the applied block and gets pegged to the frame along with the ends of the ribs. It's a common detail on timber framed buildings which have full length ribs on the principal rafters.
It allows for a gap between the ribs, which makes them easy to fit one at a time instead of having to fit everything all at the same time and it lets me take the spandrel off when it comes time to fit all the other ribs.
So that's the first dry fit and I can now see how much I need to drop the spandrel so that the centre lines all meet up.
It needs to drop about 1/4" to be right and I can just flip it over and plane the back of the block off. I'll have to make a new insert, but the first one was slightly wrong as the tennon needs to be longer anyway, so it's no great shakes.
These truncated ribs create a gothic arch on the sides of the vault, which answers the question of why is there a gothic arch mixed up with a vault with three centre transverse arches ? So it's not just because they fancied gothic windows and made both sides match, which is what I thought at the beginning.
Well, that's it for a while until I move into another studio after the BA show.
It's time to make some chairs and think about fitting the transverse arches.
It's time to make some chairs and think about fitting the transverse arches.
paulrbarnard
Established Member
Good move in the chairs. You probably need a sit down after all the work on these.
These are great joined chairs to be made for Knole and both are from the 17th century...... Luckily I have free license to tidy up the carving and crest on the first one a bit, as it's very freely carved. The second is much more typical of the 17th century and is very precise and quite symmetrical.
I'll tack this onto the MA thread.....Chairs for Knole.
Templets galore.
Processing.
Setting out.
Who needs a bandsaw when you've got Mr Gilpin on your side ?
A light rasping and the crest is made and ready for carving and joining.
Templets galore.
Processing.
Setting out.
Who needs a bandsaw when you've got Mr Gilpin on your side ?
A light rasping and the crest is made and ready for carving and joining.
A little bit of experimental research.
I've decided to investigate the difference in size of the timber blank required if I orientate the radial/riven face on the face of the rear stile or have it on the edge of the rear stile.
In high quality joined chairs you'll see the figuring of the rays on the face of the rear stile which can sometimes also incorporate some elaborate carving, but on cheaper chairs the rays are on the edges.
To do it the posh way requires a much larger and very clear section of riven timber to start from, so that it ends up with the grain of the timber running along full the length of the back section of the stile.
To get an idea of the size of this piece of timber the chisel is a 2" framing chisel.
So I need a good riven section which will end up being taken down to around 2 3/4" x 6" . This means that the section has to start at just under a quarter of a decent size stem, which is a substantial piece of wood. If I cut the stile the other way, I can get away with using about half the amount of timber.
I've left the section long, so that the clearest piece can be selected to cut the stile from. I should be able to split a decent section from the other side of the back, if I cut through the width where the rake starts, or I might possibly be able to get both stiles from the same section, so all is not lost.
I've decided to investigate the difference in size of the timber blank required if I orientate the radial/riven face on the face of the rear stile or have it on the edge of the rear stile.
In high quality joined chairs you'll see the figuring of the rays on the face of the rear stile which can sometimes also incorporate some elaborate carving, but on cheaper chairs the rays are on the edges.
To do it the posh way requires a much larger and very clear section of riven timber to start from, so that it ends up with the grain of the timber running along full the length of the back section of the stile.
To get an idea of the size of this piece of timber the chisel is a 2" framing chisel.
So I need a good riven section which will end up being taken down to around 2 3/4" x 6" . This means that the section has to start at just under a quarter of a decent size stem, which is a substantial piece of wood. If I cut the stile the other way, I can get away with using about half the amount of timber.
I've left the section long, so that the clearest piece can be selected to cut the stile from. I should be able to split a decent section from the other side of the back, if I cut through the width where the rake starts, or I might possibly be able to get both stiles from the same section, so all is not lost.
I went for both stiles from one piece, which was a gamble .....But you never know until you try.
Cut some kerfs for knocking the waste off.
Time to take the "SqueakyBum Stiles or Firewood Challenge ™ " and split them apart on the brake..
Two nice clear stiles ready for planing to size with very little waste.
Cut some kerfs for knocking the waste off.
Time to take the "SqueakyBum Stiles or Firewood Challenge ™ " and split them apart on the brake..
Two nice clear stiles ready for planing to size with very little waste.
Inspector
Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck!
Could a bow saw be used to saw the two apart or would that not be period correct?
Pete
Pete
@Inspector Possibly but I would imagine that the route of least resistance would be taken in all circumstances. So sometimes sawn, sometimes riven and sometimes with the radial face going the other way.
I ended up with a couple of nice 3" stiles, which are far too good for painting, so I guess I'm also making a chair for me.
Mr Gilpin is shining nicely with all this hewing going on.....
I might see if the Overlook Hotel has any caretaker vacancies.
I ended up with a couple of nice 3" stiles, which are far too good for painting, so I guess I'm also making a chair for me.
Mr Gilpin is shining nicely with all this hewing going on.....
I might see if the Overlook Hotel has any caretaker vacancies.
Pile o' bits..
Let the morticing games begin.
Let the morticing games begin.
paulrbarnard
Established Member
Looking good!
Currently trawling for inspiration for the carving on my chair and came across this little gem.
Droogs
Is that chisel shar ... Ow
Nice Jacobian/Queen Mary Heavy chair. Colron do a superb Jacobian mahogany dye that looks great on this type of oak furniture once given a good waxing, all the skirting and architrave in my livingroom is done with this.
Here we go then, the front and back of the mid 17th. century chair from Knole.
The chair is splayed front to back, so I need to do a mock up to get the angles right for the side stretchers. Once again, like most things I seem to make, there is no maths involved, nor are there any set angles, as most of it is cut to fit and all the mouldings and turnings are done freehand by eye.
This makes for a very relaxed way of working, which suits my temperament quite nicely.
The chair is splayed front to back, so I need to do a mock up to get the angles right for the side stretchers. Once again, like most things I seem to make, there is no maths involved, nor are there any set angles, as most of it is cut to fit and all the mouldings and turnings are done freehand by eye.
This makes for a very relaxed way of working, which suits my temperament quite nicely.
