The importance of practising what one preaches

[Steve Maskery]

I don't think so Bob, at least not on my saw.
It's more like the incoming one pushing against the last one that wasn't cleared away. That gets pushed, turned, twizzled and generally moved about in an uncontrolled way and sooner or later one gets picked up by the blade. It's particularly a risk if cross-cutting and the offcuts are short, light bits that you cannot easily pull away each time.
S

PS I do apologise. I've just had to remove a grocer's apostrophe. Unforgivable. That's two embarrassments in two days. I hope that things don't always come in threes...

 

[lurker]

Your fence is too long as well, I don't understand why people use long fences, middle of the blade and no further, no pro shop I know of uses a long fence.

Strange you think the fence should be on the left, I've only ever seen fences on the right on commercial saws.

Bob the working part of Steve's fence protrudes no further than the middle of the blade, difficult to see from the photo but I assure you that is the case.

Regarding the fence side, have another read of what Steve says in the opening post.

 

[custard]

As Steve said.

I use one of these to shunt off-cuts out of the way, except it doesn't always work, sometimes I forget, and with an angled cut it probably wouldn't work even if I remembered to use it.

http://uk.feldershop.com/en/Workshop/Sa ... gnets.html

The sad reality is that stopping the saw, waiting for the blade to come to a complete halt, clearing away each individual off-cut, then re-starting the saw and moving on to the next workpiece, would crush productivity. If you've got a thousand window frame components that have all been machined over length and now need 50mm crosscutting off the end, well, making a profit means most commercial saw operators would argue they don't have a choice but to let the off-cuts pile up. That's why Peter's post was such a shocker, everyone does it and I never dreamed the outcome could be so serious. The worst i'd have thought might happen is a relatively small off-cut being thrown backwards, but well to your right hand side. Peter's post shows the off-cut can come across the saw blade and hit the operator with enough force to amputate a finger.

 

[Jacob]

.....Mine covers the blade much better than the crown guard that came with it, which was small, impossible - and I do mean impossible - to adjust properly and could actually fall onto the blade. This one can't.

Er - it did though didn't it?

... It's not flimsy at all,

Hmm, like the curates egg - excellent in parts. :roll:
I'd look more closely at getting a proper crown guard, firmly fixed to a riving knife.

Jacob, you can buy me a commiseration pint on Thursday.

Oh all right then! I expect you will need a straw. :lol:

 

[woodbrains]

The sad reality is that stopping the saw, waiting for the blade to come to a complete halt, clearing away each individual off-cut, then re-starting the saw and moving on to the next workpiece, would crush productivity. If you've got a thousand window frame components that have all been machined over length and now need 50mm crosscutting off the end, well, making a profit means most commercial saw operators would argue they don't have a choice but to let the off-cuts pile up. That's why Peter's post was such a shocker, everyone does it and I never dreamed the outcome could be so serious. The worst i'd have thought might happen is a relatively small off-cut being thrown backwards, but well to your right hand side. Peter's post shows the off-cut can come across the saw blade and hit the operator with enough force to amputate a finger.

Hello,

The right tool for the job! A chop/mitre saw in this case. Productivity is never an excuse for poor safety, but the correct tool can restore efficiency and safety.

Mike.

 

[Steve Maskery]

[Er - it did though didn't it?

No it didn't, not at all. It was pushed in from the side. It's not at all the same thing. This was due to my imperfect implementation of the design, not a flaw in the design itself.

In my defence, I made this in a hurry in order to finish one of my DVDs. It was a Mk2 version of one I'd used for years, which was very good but I could see how it could be improved. I was facing eviction from my home at the time, was mentally ill and not doing very much very well at all. My only thought was to finish filming before the end of the world came.

Now I can see the weaknesses. The link where the arms meet the boom should have been more robust, as should the mounting of the support shoe to the fence, but the problem here was only the positioning of the cover WRT the blade. A small thing, but one which produced all this mess. All the rest was good, and I really do think that the fact that I have only superficial cuts and bruises in the face of what it could have been is testament to how well it did work, not a manifestation of how inadequate it is.

If you had seen the original crown guard you would agree, I'm sure.

 

[ayuce]

Steve regarding your experience on woodworking and safety, it's pretty frightening. Just wonder if you can find where the broken teeth went.BTW if push stick came to contact with blade, should't it just be cut safely ?

 

[Steve Maskery]

The teeth could be anywhere. They are quite small. They may well be inside the saw.
The PS would be cut cleanly if it was presented in a controlled manner, but if just thrown in by the violence of everything else that was going on, it would just get chewed, which is, in fact, what happened.

This has really brought home to me the strength of the forces that are present in this sort of operation.

 

[n0legs]

Steve, is this design of guard and support arm in any of your videos as a "how to make it" ?
I hope you get where I'm going with this question.

 

[ayuce]

I heard some devices for elderly people, like alarm button, auto call on fall detection etc. Might be usefull for the ones working alone. Just an example:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/www-elderlysos- ... B00BHZ71I6

 

[Steve Maskery]

Steve, is this design of guard and support arm in any of your videos as a "how to make it" ?
I hope you get where I'm going with this question.

Strangely enough...

Follow the link in my signature and go to WE8. Or better still, the TS set

I'd just like to point out that this really was not the point of the thread! But this guard, despite my errors, has saved me from serious injury.

 

[n0legs]

Strangely enough...

Follow the link in my signature and go to WE8.

I'd just like to point out that this really was not the point of the thread!

Hey sorry Steve that wasn't the intent. I don't want some t*** coming along with "Dear Mr Maskery blaa blaa blaa"

 

[Jacob]

Steve, is this design of guard and support arm in any of your videos as a "how to make it" ?
I hope you get where I'm going with this question.

Strangely enough...

Follow the link in my signature and go to WE8.

.....

I hope you are not recommending home made SUVA type guards. They are obviously fundamentally defective.
It should be easy enough to buy a riving knife and crown guard, off the peg, to fit any saw with a couple of bolt holes for the knife. Maybe modify the bolt holes depending on make and model. That's the safe way to do it.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I disagree, Jacob, I really disagree.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I heard some devices for elderly people,

Oi!


Closer to the truth than you may think.
S

 

[n0legs]

Could a mod view and start removing some of the comments.
Let's just keep this as an accident report/investigation and a "how you doing mate" thread.
Take some of mine down if they are inappropriate, I don't mind.

 

[Peter Sefton]

I didn't question my mate to much on the exact circumstances of the accident as I was showing the students around his production workshop. But I do know one of the jobs going through the workshop was some MDF veneered hexagon pyramids. The sections for this would have been cut on the sliding carriage of either his Wadkin or Altendorf both guarded as Bobs. Veneered MDF with angled edges can be very sharp!

I would assume the operator was working to the left of the saw blade operating the sliding table. The off cuts would be on the right hand side. If they are not cleared away from the saw they build up and after a few cuts they begin to rub the back of the saw until the uprising teeth pick them up and through them.

The problem may have happened when he came to the RH side to either turn the saw off or clear away the waste. Some saws have an off switch on the LH side which negates the need to enter the danger zone. The worst thing to do is to lean down to turn off the saw and then put your face in the danger zone. I use the push stick to turn off the saw.

Two ways of keeping more productive and clearing the waste is to use a dust extraction hood with a cage over it to pull the waste away from the blade until it gets inefficient. Or using an air gun to blow the waste away, but this creates air born dust and could lead to you putting the air line into blade.

This is one of the reasons for the 10 second breaking regulations to encourage users to stop the saw and clean waste away in a timely manner. A push stick should always be used to remove the waste even if you think the saw has stopped.

Cheers Peter

Edited don't Know my left from right

 

[woodbrains]

I'd just like to point out that this really was not the point of the thread! But this guard, despite my errors, has saved me from serious injury.

Hello, I don't want to sound as if I'm knocking you personally, I'm not, but do you not see the paradox of this statement?

Mike.

 

[Steve Maskery]

OK Mike, I see where you are coming from, but no, actually, I don't think there is a paradox. This has saved me from serious injury. I do accept that it has caused me minor injury, and serious injury to my pride, perhaps, given my profile on the subject, but I do stand by it. I have received minor injuries due to my imperfect implementation of a good design. I've not received serious injuries, which I most certainly could have.

Hey, I may have met my match in pedantry!

 

[Peter Sefton]

I don't think nitpicking is a constructive way to look at Steve's experience which he was brave enough to share with us all. I am sure we have all learnt lessons from this unfortunate accident and I would like to thank Steve for showing us.

Most of the time we are lucky, sometimes we run out of luck.

Cheers Peter