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jimi43

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Every so often....something happens to restore your faith in humankind.

The other day I received a PM...quite out of the blue from a forum member offering to send me a woodie he had "gathering dust" in his workshop. Not just any plane...but a GABRIEL plane!

I couldn't go to the boot fair this morning because Annie had to work and there was nobody to drive while I stopped ALFIE from jumping out of the car window....so I was in a bit of a grumpy mood...then the postman came!

Over to ALFIE....



As we can see...it's not just a GABRIEL plane but a GABRIEL FILLISTER plane....and an absolutely stunning one at that!



Now I'm not very good at this metal thing but my Dad says this is just superb engineering...



Certainly smells nice! :mrgreen:



Once again the slightly worn but unmistakeable zigzag boarder of the older planes...



...both on the maker stamp and on the contemporary owner..one Mr T.Thompson



...and many others overstamped from the same period at the turn of the 1800s...

We can hardly wait to play with it...more on that later...but Dad says he thinks the UKW Angel wants to remain nameless....so I will just say a BIG thanks to Richard....you are a very nice man!!! =D>




Oooooo LOOK! A bee!!! :lol:

ALFIE and JIM
 

woodbloke

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Nice one Jim...and Alfie. Once again a demonstration of the genuine friendliness and outright generosity of the membership of UKWorkshop =D> - Rob
 

Corneel

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That's not a bad gift! Brass wearplate on the side. Ingeneous depth stop. No idea how that one works. No fence either? I wonder how they would set the width of the cut. Because the depthstop would be in tge way of a batten nailed to the stuff.
 

AndyT

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Nice one Jim and Richard!

One question - I happened to be looking in the Seaton Chest inventory yesterday to see what it said about the fillister plane - and it is listed as missing - your one wouldn't happen to be marked "BS" anywhere would it?

And I'm doubly pleased that it meant I was not bidding against you for one which I bought at a very reasonable price on eBay yesterday - I'll post some comparison pictures when it arrives!

Thinking about your question Corneel - I think Jim's has possibly lost the fence it used to have - which would have been held by screws up into the underside of the plane, working in slots. Jim - are there any signs of two filled-in screw holes there?
 

Dangermouse

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Corneel":2ot36h55 said:
That's not a bad gift! Brass wearplate on the side. Ingeneous depth stop. No idea how that one works. No fence either? I wonder how they would set the width of the cut. Because the depthstop would be in tge way of a batten nailed to the stuff.
I presume if you owned a wonerful tool like this, you would be at the top of your profession and be able to plane to a line.
 

toolsntat

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AndyT":jk4a5ooq said:
Thinking about your question Corneel - I think Jim's has possibly lost the f ence it used to have - which would have been held by screws up into the underside of the plane, working in slots. Jim - are there any signs of two filled-in screw holes there?
Interesting ,it shows the "spring" markings on the front that you would find on a "moulding" plane :?
Non the less, still a very nice gesture and Richard is to be commended for his generosity of what is likely a very well reworked plane =D>

Is there a number on the rear and any name on the iron Jimi?

Andy
 

jimi43

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Indeed Rob...this place is indeed wonderful...full of really nice people who are more interested in helping others than themselves...and that is very heart-warming.

Corneel...the depth stop is quite amazing. At first I didn't think the wingnut and the stop were connected...but turning it did indeed slowly raise and lower the stop and by a very small amount at a time...obviously a very fine and accurate thread.

The precision of the movement and maintained squareness to the sole is pure engineering poetry....and for an early Gabriel over 200 years old...that is indeed remarkable. I have no intention whatever to take it apart..that would be sacrilege but I am intrigued as to how it looks.

Andy...I have a huge apology to make to you...I WAS THAT OTHER BIDDER! And I am so glad I lost....firstly to you and secondly as I had no idea what my gift of a "surprise" was....that was spooky!!! :shock: Unlike yours...which I watched for ages (and you pipped me by two quid by the way!)...."mine" does not have any slides for a fence...only a few (very old) tack holes which ALFIE would have demonstrated in this picture....



...had he not fallen asleep.... :mrgreen:

But I will take some more pictures tomorrow to show you. I also read the "missing fillister" part in my recently acquired Seaton book....fun that isn't it...but alas...no BS mate...(I always wanted to say that!) :mrgreen:

DM...I'm not at the top of my profession so I wouldn't know mate!!! :mrgreen:

Interesting ,it shows the "spring" markings on the front that you would find on a "moulding" plane
Non the less, still a very nice gesture and Richard is to be commended for his generosity of what is likely a very well reworked plane

Is there a number on the rear and any name on the iron Jimi?
Please explain the first bit Andy about "spring" as I have no idea what you mean...don't forget...I only just started on this (rather steep) slope a few months ago and I think I may have hit a crevasse!!!

There are no marks that I can discern on the iron at all my friend...but it is a beautiful (and sharp) laminated job...

There isn't a number on the rear either and I find it difficult to believe that the mechanism was reworked into another plane...it is just so well done...and very old...but this is interesting indeed.

I assume a fence was nailed to the bottom at some time but I would be tempted to leave it as it is and put a fence on the stock...raising the stop above the "fence" to the depth of the rebate required....does that make sense?
 

Corneel

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Yes you can use a low batten on the stuff and raise the depth stop to the height of that batten (plus the depth you want to cut of course).

I am still wondering how that depth stop works. But understand you don't want to pull it apart. No rontgen in the house?
 

jimi43

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Corneel":1m3o4hs2 said:
Yes you can use a low batten on the stuff and raise the depth stop to the height of that batten (plus the depth you want to cut of course).

I am still wondering how that depth stop works. But understand you don't want to pull it apart. No rontgen in the house?
What I need is one of those Clarke's shoe fit machines you used to get in shoe shops when I was a kid....I remember vividly looking down into the X-Ray beam and seeing the skeleton in my foot in the new shoes.

Of course in those days...people were much healthier and X-ray exposure didn't affect them.... :roll:

Mind you...the local shoe shop owner used to glow in the dark! :mrgreen:

Jim
 

AndyT

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Ok, a few answers to Jim's questions.

First off, I really don't mind at all about the eBay thing. I expect I've missed out to you by a pound or two sometimes, and I'm perfectly happy with the price I paid.

Second, the history of your plane - I'd spotted that the adjuster was a later addition, but not that the original was a moulding plane, but now that the other Andy has said so, it's clear to see.

Your picture



shows the "spring" lines - the two faint scribed lines at right angles. Many English moulding planes have these. It's because the plane is designed to be held at an angle to the work. The lines show the angle. The reason for spring is to do with keeping a cutting action (rather than scraping) for as much of the profile as possible, and to use a narrower iron than would otherwise be needed. There's a good essay by John Whelan here, which links to more explanations too. (I recommend a read of this - it's great evidence of how apparently simple tools have a subtlety of design which is easily overlooked.)

So the original plane would have been a moulding plane. The picture shows how the front part of the right hand side has been built up, very neatly. The brass plate helps to hold it together as well as make it wear-resistant and flat. I think it's a fascinating conversion and has clearly been done by someone suitably skilled.

As for what's in the adjuster, spare parts for planes were often listed in tool catalogues, presumably for anyone with an old worn out plane that they wanted to adapt, or for someone building their own. This is the first one I found, from Tyzack's in 1902 which shows the range available but does not illustrate them all - yours would I think be a "moving fillister stop" at 2 shillings:



I suspect there are a few more items on that page that you might like to be able to buy so easily!
 

Corneel

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Yes Spring is one of these things making English moulding planes so special. The other one is the leaning wedge. Both inventions were unknown in The Netherlands.
 

DTR

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So the plane is actually a conversion? Fascinating, it's a real beaut too
 

Corneel

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Yes very interesting!
I guess the depth stop looks somewhat like in the Tyzak catalog nr. 591.
I thought there was part of the wood moving too, but that is the later addition on the side.
 

jimi43

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Without modifying the plane at all any further, I flattened the bevel as I prefer a single bevel on rebate planes and then tried it out against a batten...



It performs beautifully! I need to tune the angle of the iron bevel a bit but it's nearly there...



It is quite heavy with the brass plating but this only adds to the positive momentum....



...and the cut is very clean and even.

All in all it cuts a nice little rebate....



...with hole where I pinned the batten! :mrgreen:

I thought I would run little Gabriel round next to it...just for fun!

So...THANK YOU...kind sir! It is a lovely addition to the chest!

Now...do I modify it further and insert some nice little brass slides....mmmm....the jury is out on that one...what WOULD Charles say!?

Jim
 

AndyT

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I mentioned that I just happened to have bid for a Gabriel moving fillister on eBay. It's arrived, so here are a few pictures by way of comparison.

General view - the brass is a bit shiny but it will soon settle down again:



A close-up of the business end showing the fence under the blade:



This is held on with two proper old blunt point non-tapering screws:




They still tighten properly into the beech, but I shall have to file the slots a bit squarer - they have suffered too long from ill-fitting screwdrivers and are almost anti-vandal screws.

This shows the nice clear maker's mark and the boxing on the corner which gets the most wear:



I can't tell if the iron is old or not - I suspect not:



and the nicker is a replacement - made of modern-looking steel. I think it would have started out as a small blade for a metal plough - hence the notch - but has been quite cleverly ground down.



The wedge for it fits best with the tab outwards and the slot for the nicker is at right angles. Other wooden fillisters have bigger irons and wedges.

I've honed the iron so here is the 'shaving shot' to prove that it works:



All in all it's not in bad condition considering its age and the sort of work it would have been used for. It's a bit narrower than this later Mathieson example:





The Mathieson is a bit more rugged all round - three screws in the fence; a wider cut; chunkier boxing and a side-screw to lock the depth stop in place.

So, all very satisfactory. My only disappointment is that it does not have the initials BS on it anywhere - but I didn't really expect it - so keep on looking for the one that got away from the chest!
 

richarnold

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It's great to see all these woody's, and interesting how different planes can be even from the same maker. Here's another Gabriel moving fillister, but a bit more basic in it's design. It's also worth pointing out that the plane i sent to Jim is possibly quite an early effort from Mr Gabriel. you can tell this from the rounded wedge, and the heavy flat chamfers. It possibly predates the planes in the Seaton chest by at least a decade.



 

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