Tenon saw recommendations?

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LFS19

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I was wondering what you guys would recommend as a good tenon saw?

I'm currently learning the main joints by hand after, and so want to purchase a tenon saw.

Thanks!
 
IMO there are three types of hand saw
1. Hard point saw, mass produced, cheap (£5) and for learning perfectly useable and function well. Only real down side is that the teeth are often ground as a compromise for all of the uses it may be used for. E.g. Rip and cross cut. Equally the amount of set on the teeth is larger than a woodworker would normally set their saws which creates a wider saw cut. These factors mean that it won't cut as quickly and is not tuned for the different types of work you may do. HOWEVER, these differences when learning are not really significant and only when you start doing really fine work will you appreciate the differences.

2. Modern manufactured steel or brass backed saws where the blade is glued in. Excellent saws, will be tuned to a specific task either cross cut or rip with the number of teeth per inch adjusted for the designed thickness of wood they should cut. The thinner the wood the higher should be the number of teeth. The only down side to these saws is that if dropped and the blade becomes bowed it's almost impossible to re-tension the blade.

There is much speculation about what makes a really good saw, for any individual the decision is really down to how they feel in your hand. The majority use high quality Spring steel for the blades, and at the end of the day the differences in cut are determined by how well it's been sharpened and the users ability. I believe Lie Nielson and Veritas fall into this category.

3. Old or new saws with a folded steel of brass back. All the attributes of no 2 except if you drop the saw and bow the blade (normally when looking down the blade a distinct S can be seen along the teeth rather than it being straight) you can if you haven't damaged the blade easily straighten it out again. Any of the older saws such as Tyzak, Spear & Jackson fall into this category. The better quality saws have a brass back and also saw nuts that can be undone. The cheaper saws tended to have steel backs and rivets holding the handle to the saw blade. (Still good saws) Most can be bought on an auction site for £10~£50 or car boots for a few pounds, but almost all need to be sharpened. Modern saws include I believe Pax and certain hand made saws. The Pax saws tend to be c£100~£150 and the hand made saws £*** to reflect the time and effort involved.

IMO learning how to sharpen a saw is not hard, a few hours on uTube and reading on the Internet gives all the background you need. HOWEVER, to know when you have done it right you need to experience a really well sharpened saw to act as a benchmark. Either a friend who knows how to sharpen a saw, or the purchase of a quality well setup saw is a major factor in getting the hang of saw sharpening.

I would start out with a cheap hardline handsaw and start reading up on how to use saws and what the different tooth geometry does so you will have an appreciation of what to expect from a better saw. The next thing to do again IMO is pop along to one of the shows and try out a wide variety of saws to see and feel the differences.
 
Old Spear & Jackson are amongst the best and often around £10 to 20 on ebay. But they are all very similar. There are no saws which are magically better than others.
Saws are simple things and if the handle fits they are as good as the last sharpening.
Take them to saw doctors - but you have to get into doing it yourself sooner or later

Or to put it another way - almost any old saw will do if it's sharpened OK
 
I have bought saws from eBay and still have my first brass backed tenon saw that I have used for 30 years. However, having recently bought a couple of Veritas (crosscut tenon and a dovetail saw) saws I don't bother with anything else now (except see below). They are very good value at the moment. So I second (or third) the recommendations above.

Your other option - that I also recommend, is a decent quality Japanese saw. These cut on the pull stroke and have a very fine cut usually. I quite enjoy Japanese hand tools and I recommend these too. Decent ones are the same kind of money as the Veritas or a bit less.
 
All good advice above.
Yes pretty much any decent saw, new or old, can be sharpened to perform well. But. I think that there is one other factor that has not beem mentioned. What does the saw feel like in your hand? It might seem like a daft question, but they don't all feel the same.
I suggest that you go to a show or Open Day and try a few out. I tried all the ones that Peter Sefton sells at one of his Open days and actually I didn't like the Veritas one very much, and I'm a Veritas fan. But I did like the Thomas Flynn Pax one that he sells and I love it to bits. Nice balance and feel to the handle.

You've just missed the Newark show and Harrogate isn't until November, but there are others, keep your eyes open for a chance to try a few out.
 
n0legs":32exqkum said:
John15":32exqkum said:
Veritas saws are very well priced at the moment and good value for money. http://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-rip- ... saw-950979.
Woodworkers Workshop also stock them. http://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/epages ... CARSAWR12T.

John

Recently bought the Veritas Crosscut Carcass saw, love it. Quite a step up from the Bahco hardpoint and S&J tenon saw I've been using
It gets a two thumbs fresh rating from me :D

That's two for the veritas, thanks!
 
deema":1kio0yo5 said:
IMO there are three types of hand saw
1. Hard point saw, mass produced, cheap (£5) and for learning perfectly useable and function well. Only real down side is that the teeth are often ground as a compromise for all of the uses it may be used for. E.g. Rip and cross cut. Equally the amount of set on the teeth is larger than a woodworker would normally set their saws which creates a wider saw cut. These factors mean that it won't cut as quickly and is not tuned for the different types of work you may do. HOWEVER, these differences when learning are not really significant and only when you start doing really fine work will you appreciate the differences.

2. Modern manufactured steel or brass backed saws where the blade is glued in. Excellent saws, will be tuned to a specific task either cross cut or rip with the number of teeth per inch adjusted for the designed thickness of wood they should cut. The thinner the wood the higher should be the number of teeth. The only down side to these saws is that if dropped and the blade becomes bowed it's almost impossible to re-tension the blade.

There is much speculation about what makes a really good saw, for any individual the decision is really down to how they feel in your hand. The majority use high quality Spring steel for the blades, and at the end of the day the differences in cut are determined by how well it's been sharpened and the users ability. I believe Lie Nielson and Veritas fall into this category.

3. Old or new saws with a folded steel of brass back. All the attributes of no 2 except if you drop the saw and bow the blade (normally when looking down the blade a distinct S can be seen along the teeth rather than it being straight) you can if you haven't damaged the blade easily straighten it out again. Any of the older saws such as Tyzak, Spear & Jackson fall into this category. The better quality saws have a brass back and also saw nuts that can be undone. The cheaper saws tended to have steel backs and rivets holding the handle to the saw blade. (Still good saws) Most can be bought on an auction site for £10~£50 or car boots for a few pounds, but almost all need to be sharpened. Modern saws include I believe Pax and certain hand made saws. The Pax saws tend to be c£100~£150 and the hand made saws £*** to reflect the time and effort involved.

IMO learning how to sharpen a saw is not hard, a few hours on uTube and reading on the Internet gives all the background you need. HOWEVER, to know when you have done it right you need to experience a really well sharpened saw to act as a benchmark. Either a friend who knows how to sharpen a saw, or the purchase of a quality well setup saw is a major factor in getting the hang of saw sharpening.

I would start out with a cheap hardline handsaw and start reading up on how to use saws and what the different tooth geometry does so you will have an appreciation of what to expect from a better saw. The next thing to do again IMO is pop along to one of the shows and try out a wide variety of saws to see and feel the differences.


Thanks for the in depth reply - that certainly paints the picture of what's out there and my options.
I was just wondering, which hardline saw brands would you recomended?
I'd imagine, considering the price, there might be allot of rubbish ones out that you could make the mistake of buying.

I've noticed the brass back saws you talk about on eBay - they do often go for seemingly very good prices.
I saw a spear & Jackson in good condition go for £8 the other day, so perhaps they're a good option too if I learn to properly sharpen them.

Thanks again
 
Jacob":tremhhh7 said:
Old Spear & Jackson are amongst the best and often around £10 to 20 on ebay. But they are all very similar. There are no saws which are magically better than others.
Saws are simple things and if the handle fits they are as good as the last sharpening.
Take them to saw doctors - but you have to get into doing it yourself sooner or later

Or to put it another way - almost any old saw will do if it's sharpened OK

Thanks for the post - I've noticed allot of spear & Jackson saws in eBay going for even less than that sometimes, and in seemingly good condition (granted, I don't really know what "good condition" is as far as the blade, but no rust etc)
 
AJB Temple":lzazqu9k said:
I have bought saws from eBay and still have my first brass backed tenon saw that I have used for 30 years. However, having recently bought a couple of Veritas (crosscut tenon and a dovetail saw) saws I don't bother with anything else now (except see below). They are very good value at the moment. So I second (or third) the recommendations above.

Your other option - that I also recommend, is a decent quality Japanese saw. These cut on the pull stroke and have a very fine cut usually. I quite enjoy Japanese hand tools and I recommend these too. Decent ones are the same kind of money as the Veritas or a bit less.

Thanks for your post - that's a third for the veritas, then.

And yeah, I've had a look into the Japanese saws, they seem interesting and look to produce a nice cut.
 
Steve Maskery":6obpslte said:
All good advice above.
Yes pretty much any decent saw, new or old, can be sharpened to perform well. But. I think that there is one other factor that has not beem mentioned. What does the saw feel like in your hand? It might seem like a daft question, but they don't all feel the same.
I suggest that you go to a show or Open Day and try a few out. I tried all the ones that Peter Sefton sells at one of his Open days and actually I didn't like the Veritas one very much, and I'm a Veritas fan. But I did like the Thomas Flynn Pax one that he sells and I love it to bits. Nice balance and feel to the handle.

You've just missed the Newark show and Harrogate isn't until November, but there are others, keep your eyes open for a chance to try a few out.


Indeed, I should go to a show and get a feel for some.
I imagine there's quite a bit of variation.

I keep a look out, thanks for your post.
 
Peter Sefton":1gtv9qbq said:
I am just about to go and demonstrate saws to this weeks students, my advice to them is the same as on here the Vertias are excellent saws and now cheaper than ever. If you like a heaver weight saw go for one with a brass back.

Cheers Peter

Wow, a total of four recommendations for that saw.
Are the brass backs significantly heavier?

Thanks allot
 
LFS19":3dewa978 said:
Peter Sefton":3dewa978 said:
I am just about to go and demonstrate saws to this weeks students, my advice to them is the same as on here the Vertias are excellent saws and now cheaper than ever. If you like a heaver weight saw go for one with a brass back.

Cheers Peter

Wow, a total of four recommendations for that saw.
Are the brass backs significantly heavier?

Thanks allot

I was going to guess but I weighed them instead, although these are dovetail saws.

The Veritas 20 TPI fine rip Dovetail was .75 LBS

The Pax 1776 10" 20TPI was 1 LBS

They brass backed feels a lot heavier in the hand.

Cheers Peter
 
Peter Sefton":773lu2qx said:
LFS19":773lu2qx said:
Peter Sefton":773lu2qx said:
I am just about to go and demonstrate saws to this weeks students, my advice to them is the same as on here the Vertias are excellent saws and now cheaper than ever. If you like a heaver weight saw go for one with a brass back.

Cheers Peter

Wow, a total of four recommendations for that saw.
Are the brass backs significantly heavier?

Thanks allot

I was going to guess but I weighed them instead, although these are dovetail saws.

The Veritas 20 TPI fine rip Dovetail was .75 LBS

The Pax 1776 10" 20TPI was 1 LBS

They brass backed feels a lot heavier in the hand.

Cheers Peter


Interesting, thanks for that.
 
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