table saw fence question

[shed9]

That blade is beyond the spec of the saw itself. A Dewalt 745 is meant to take a 250mm blade whereas a Freud LCL6M01051 is 260mm diameter.

Assuming the part number LCL6M01051 is correct. You probably need a LP40M 025 if you want a 60T Freud for that saw.

 

[Myfordman]

I think you have read the number correctly as lots of vendors seem to be selling a blade with that number. What I cannot find is that number on the Freud tools website in order to look up the exact spec.
The blade is listed for a mitre saw where the blade is moved through the work. On a table saw the wood is moved through the blade. This could be the root of your problem.
So that we can establish the rake angle please lay a rule across the diameter of the blade and take a close up photo of a tooth and the ruler edge to show the angle of the larger flat tooth face to the ruler.
Also if you google rake angle on circular saw blade you might find why this is relevant.

 

[Steve Maskery]

That is totally the wrong blade for the job, for all the reasons shed9 gives. A good quality 24T will give far better results.
I'm not familiar with the saw. Can you post a picture? I don't see how it can be a mitre saw and a table saw at the same time.
Who told you to buy a 60T blade for ripping? The spec clearly says it is for clean cross-cutting:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/freud-tct-ci ... _container

 

[shed9]

Also Freud lists it as a Cross Cut blade.

That said, I'm aware that Freud have been accused of mismatch in advertised info relevant to website, packaging and the blade itself.

 

[Myfordman]

Shed9. Did you find that blade on the Freud website? I could not find it this morning?

 

[Steve Maskery]

Look on the bright side. At least you have a very nice cross-cut blade for when you buy a saw that can actually take it!
Did you also notice that it is thin-kerf? Have you fitted a corresponding RK? If you are using a RK meant for a 3.2mm kerf blade...

 

[shed9]

Shed9. Did you find that blade on the Freud website? I could not find it this morning?

Freud are not the best for info so no, I checked a few suppliers that had reviews against the blade to make sure it was what it says it is. When I googled it there are quite a few online resources for swapping the 745's factory shipped blade to a Freud - it seems this is the default upgrade for a lot of users of that saw.

 

[sunnybob]

My original problem well over a year ago (possibly 2) was the ryobi combi saw not cutting the hardwood well.
I bought the freud blade on the recommendations of this forum at that time.
At all times I have been trying to rip hardwoods to achieve a smooth finish (that is 98% of what I do with these saws).
Because the ryobi would not perform well regardless of what I tried, I have now bought the dewalt 745 table saw.
I fitted the freud to the dewalt. It did require removal of 5 mm from the inside edge of the riving knife.
It works well in every other respect.
I have aligned the blade to the mitre slot.
I have aligned the fence to the blade.
I have made a zero clearance insert and it fits flush with the table top.

Because of my location, obtaining another blade other than bog standard construction quality is an expensive and very time consuming project .

 

[Steve Maskery]

I don't think that "the forum" has any opinion on the matter. It must have been an individual. Did you check that they actually new what they were talking about?
Is the blade that came with the saw thin-kerf or standard kerf? I'm not sure, but I think the original blade cuts a 3mm kerf, whereas the Freud cuts 2.6mm. That is probably too big a difference to use the same RK for both.

 

[shed9]

I fitted the freud to the dewalt. It did require removal of 5 mm from the inside edge of the riving knife.

That should have been alarm bells right there.

I appreciate the situation sunnybob in the options available to your location but modifying a safety feature to cram a spinning blade into a table saw beyond it's defined limits is never going to go well. It would be useful to measure the blade tooth width and the riving knife width at this point to answer some of the previous questions. You have a good starting point in the 745 saw, just a matter of working out the blade relevant to your needs and the saw itself.
Are there no woodworking clubs in your area to maybe do group purchases, economies of scale and all that?

 

[galleywood]

I think Sunnybob has modified the RK by taking off 0,5mm (not 5mm as he has stated).
Sunnybob, please confirm.

 

[sunnybob]

If I ask a question on an open forum and get a response from a forum member (or several) how do I check what they know and dont know?
I asked for advice and was given advice. It did improve what I was achieving, but not perfectly.

I have spent over 4 years trying to find an individual here who is a wood hobbiest, let alone a club. After an island wide advert I got one response from a man who claimed to be proficient. when I met him I discovered he had difficulty nailing two bits of wood together to make a 90 degree angle. Steve Maskery told me he had sent a tutorial to Cyprus, but it wasnt me and I have no way of finding out who it was.

As far as the riving knife , I didnt actually measure how much I removed, it was sufficient for the blade to spin freely. I used a bench grinder making sure the steel did not get hot and lose temper. There is still at least 2" of high quality steel there, in no way have I compromised the safety of the knife.

The knife is 2.1 mm
The freud blade is 2.6 mm
The as supplied dewalt blade is 2.8 mm.

 

[Steve Maskery]

If I ask a question on an open forum and get a response from a forum member (or several) how do I check what they know and dont know?
I asked for advice and was given advice. It did improve what I was achieving, but not perfectly.

It's called Due Dilligence. Can you find the original thread so we can see what was actually said? I simply cannot believe that someone suggested you do this without being shot down in flames. Show us the thread, so that we can put it right so that no-one else tries to do what you have done.

I have spent over 4 years trying to find an individual here who is a wood hobbiest, let alone a club. After an island wide advert I got one response from a man who claimed to be proficient. when I met him I discovered he had difficulty nailing two bits of wood together to make a 90 degree angle. Steve Maskery told me he had sent a tutorial to Cyprus, but it wasnt me and I have no way of finding out who it was.

I did email him on your behalf but did not get a reply.

As far as the riving knife , I didnt actually measure how much I removed, it was sufficient for the blade to spin freely. I used a bench grinder making sure the steel did not get hot and lose temper. There is still at least 2" of high quality steel there, in no way have I compromised the safety of the knife.

No, but if you have removed 5mm, and that would be right to move from a 250mm to a 260mm blade, then you have ruined the RK for use with a blade that IS suitable for use on that saw. The gap between the RK and the right blade will be too big - or at least, no longer comply with HSE guidelines. When you put the original blade back on, what is the gap between it and the RK, measured at the surface of the table?

The knife is 2.1 mm
The freud blade is 2.6 mm
The as supplied dewalt blade is 2.8 mm.

You might get away with it. What is the thickness of the plate on the Freud blade? The plate, not the kerf the blade cuts.

 

[sunnybob]

I have no way of finding that thread except trawling through 2 years worth of subscribed threads. At the time there was no reason to make any special notes about it.
There are always options offered, but there were no naysayers to the freud suggestion. I recall more than one recommended it.

I have no intention of refitting the standard blade. As and when i get another it will be the same size as it gives me that extra 5 mm depth of cut. And I am the only user.

The blade plate is 2 mm dead.

 

[Ttrees]

To get an idea of the rake angle... whether the saw blade blade has a positive rake angle for tablesaws,
or a negative rake angle for mitre saws...
Take the blade out and lay a ruler down on it, bang on in the middle of the bore and draw a pencil line.
Imagine lifting up the blade...

On the top of this blade, the tooth to the right of the line will be leaning upward/forwards, for a suitable blade on a tablesaw.
It will be leaning away from this line for a suitable blade on a mitresaw, and is a lesser aggressive cut.

Tom

 

[LancsRick]

Here's the old thread.

table-saw-blade-t111360.html?hilit=blade

 

[Sgian Dubh]

If I ask a question on an open forum and get a response from a forum member (or several) how do I check what they know and dont know?

I agree. It's difficult to tell if the information you get from open sources such as the internet is good, or merely someone basically opening their mouth and letting their belly rumble. I can generally spot poor knowledge of a writer, a contributor in a forum, and other information sources in the woodworking field within a few sentences, but that's because furniture design and making, and other related woodworking topics are my specialist field.

Outside my field of expertise, when it comes to finding information from whatever source, my only recourse is to try and search for and judge the information provider's credentials. That is, if their credentials don't stack up, it's highly likely I'll pay little attention to what they say. For example, if you're looking for information about a specialist subject, medical for example, who are you going to take notice of - a highly trained and experienced medical practitioner in that particular field with a history of published and peer-reviewed papers in prestigious medical journals, or a self-proclaimed 'expert' influencer on Twitter? Slainte.

 

[LancsRick]

I have no way of finding that thread except trawling through 2 years worth of subscribed threads. At the time there was no reason to make any special notes about it.
There are always options offered, but there were no naysayers to the freud suggestion. I recall more than one recommended it.

I don't think anybody is disputing Freud (if they were, I'd stick up for the red blades!), it's more the case that this is the wrong blade for the job.

On the subject of sticking with an oversized blade, I believe it's broadly safe, however...
- Check that you still have full rise and fall/tilt of the blade, often larger blades will foul.
- You will technically be overloading the motor and bearings vs. what it was designed for, however my (completely unqualified) gut feel would be it's a small difference. It'll almost certainly invalidate your warranty as evidenced by the riving knife.
- Crown guard is probably a poor fit for the new blade.
- You run more of a risk of bogging down the motor due to the larger blade.

 

[sunnybob]

A quick look through that old thread shows my memory is even worse than i thought it was.
the blade make is not in question (that much I was sure of), but most did suggest less teeth for ripping, although a couple thought it was ok for small pieces.
This is what I do. Its very rare to cut a piece longer than 2 foot which is obviously why I bought it at the time.

The teeth are forward rake. The tops of the teeth are angled alternately. If I make a blind cut through wood the top of the groove is not flat and square.

I dont force the wood through, i know all about feed rates from the bandsaw.
But we are now full circle. From all the comments here, its obvious that untill (or unless) I get another blade I will need to make much more use of the sled, possibly even making a bigger one, maybe open ended at the front to allow me to cut longer pieces.

 

[MusicMan]

I think you have read the number correctly as lots of vendors seem to be selling a blade with that number. What I cannot find is that number on the Freud tools website in order to look up the exact spec.
The blade is listed for a mitre saw where the blade is moved through the work. On a table saw the wood is moved through the blade. This could be the root of your problem.
So that we can establish the rake angle please lay a rule across the diameter of the blade and take a close up photo of a tooth and the ruler edge to show the angle of the larger flat tooth face to the ruler.
Also if you google rake angle on circular saw blade you might find why this is relevant.

+1. The reason that a mitre saw blade is wrong, and why people are asking about the rake, is that the rake on a mitre saw blade is designed so as to push the work away from the blade onto the solid table. On a table saw the rake needs to pull the work down into the table. So a mitre saw blade will push the work away from the table on a table saw, which gives poor finish and can be dangerous.

You need about 20 - 25 tooth for ripping, 60 - 80 for crosscutting, both being designed for table saw. A combo blade does each equally well (or badly). I often use a combo blade for most work, replacing it with the right blade when I want good finish.

I often work with small pieces, using two push sticks. Technically you should push with one stick approximately in line with the saw blade, and with the other stick just before the saw blade, never after, into the fence. With both sticks it helps if they have a bird's mouth so that you can press down a bit to keep the work in contact with the table.

And yes, a long fence for sheet goods but a short fence (stopping just before the gullet) for other wood. You'll soon get the hang of doing the last cm, then the work just slips into the space at the end of the short fence and doesn't get spoilt by the back of the blade.

Good luck!