Stanley 4 1/2 Type 6/7 ?

[AdrianUK]

So, I’ve finally got around to sorting some planes, they’ve all been stored under wax paper type coverings, so relatively free of corrosion, first one out was a Stanley No 10 Carriage plane, just required a brush off and light clean.

The next is this Stanley 4 1/2. I believe it’s a type 7, majority of features suggest this, however couple of things feel strange on it.

Firstly, I had thought the early types had low knobs, some online studies suggest this to be the case, and an important factor to identify, whilst others don’t seem to mark this distinction as so important. This plane has a high knob, of course, it could be a later replacement, but did early Stanley’s have high knobs as well as low? Both knob and tote have the same names on. So have been together for a considerable time.

The small brass adjuster is stamped Baileys Patent & 2 dates, which according

Plane Feature Timeline

was a feature of type 6, but not a type 7.

Possibly likely as a change was made, the old brass adjuster wheels continued to be used until stock exhausted ?

The bed is cast with an ‘S’ behind the frog, as is the lever cap, several sites are clear that where a bed is cast with an ‘S’, that this firmly establishes the type as a 7.

It also has a cap iron mark ‘ L Bailey Patent dec 24 1867 ‘ there’s online reference to this mark on the type 1 planes and the mark was carried forward onto later types, but not when this was ended. Again Hperkitten site.
Would like to know this plane is not a ‘bits-er’ if it is, it was done a long time ago as it’s not seen daylight in since approx early 1960s. It’s actually not in too bad shape for over 100 yrs old, uses well, I’ve a lovely Record already, so another 4.1/2

I don’t really need, but hard to dismiss one of this age and it prob has a value to someone.

Anyway, any Stanley experts shed any further light or thoughts?

Would like to know this plane is not a ‘bits-er’ if it is, it was done a long time ago as it’s not seen daylight in since approx early 1960s. It’s actually not in too bad shape for over 100 yrs old, uses well, I’ve a lovely Record already, so another 4.1/2

I don’t really need, but hard to dismiss one of this age and it prob has a value to someone.

Anyway, any Stanley experts shed any further light or thoughts?

 

[JobandKnock]

AFAIK patent dates in the USA from 1861 until 1995 had a duration of 17 years, so I generally reckon that parts of a given patent date wouldn't be scrapped when the patent ran out, but might be used for up to a couple of years after end of patent. By that definition a plane with patent dates of 6-2-1879 and 4-27-1886 would have been made no earlier than 27 April, 1886 and no later than about June, 1898.

Similarly, when a model is changed in production the manufacturer generally won't scrap his existing parts inventory, but will use them up. This makes it likely that your hybrid was made within a couple of years of the type 7 being made available, possibly even less than 2 years.

Low knob planes are all earlier ones made up to the 1920s (they appeared on type 9 planes in about 1919). A high knob on a type 7 tends to 6 a later replacement, either because of an accident, a split or possibly because a later user favoured the high knob. I for one struggle with low knobs on smaller sizes because my hands are too big - the high knobs I find a lot easier to live with

Of course there is always the possibility of your plane being a "Frankenplane" or as we used to call some motorbikes a "Bitsa"

 

[sploo]

Basically, what JobandKnock said; the "types" on Stanley planes are little fluid (in the sense that parts changed slowly over time - it's natural to find examples with bits from more than one type).

The iron has the Sweetheart logo; which means it's from a later date - Type 12 (but as it's a consumable that's entirely understandable). The gap between the "No" and the "4 1/2" would indicate the casting is later (Type 7 rather than Type 6), but the dates on the cap iron and brass nut are from the earlier type.

Does the lateral lever have 2 or 3 dates stamped into it? If it has a third (7-24-88) that would also lean it towards a type 7.

In any event, there's nothing obvious of concern (of it being a "bitsa"). I prefer the low front knob, but they do get broken so may well have been replaced.

Overall, a very nice plane, and I love the feel of the models from this era.

 

[AdrianUK]

AFAIK patent dates in the USA from 1861 until 1995 had a duration of 17 years, so I generally reckon that parts of a given patent date wouldn't be scrapped when the patent ran out, but might be used for up to a couple of years after end of patent. By that definition a plane with patent dates of 6-2-1879 and 4-27-1886 would have been made no earlier than 27 April, 1886 and no later than about June, 1898.

Similarly, when a model is changed in production the manufacturer generally won't scrap his existing parts inventory, but will use them up. This makes it likely that your hybrid was made within a couple of years of the type 7 being made available, possibly even less than 2 years.

Low knob planes are all earlier ones made up to the 1920s (they appeared on type 9 planes in about 1919). A high knob on a type 7 tends to 6 a later replacement, either because of an accident, a split or possibly because a later user favoured the high knob. I for one struggle with low knobs on smaller sizes because my hands are too big - the high knobs I find a lot easier to live with

Of course there is always the possibility of your plane being a "Frankenplane" or as we used to call some motorbikes a "Bitsa"

Thank JobsndKnock for the useful insights.

 

[AdrianUK]

Basically, what JobandKnock said; the "types" on Stanley planes are little fluid (in the sense that parts changed slowly over time - it's natural to find examples with bits from more than one type).

The iron has the Sweetheart logo; which means it's from a later date - Type 12 (but as it's a consumable that's entirely understandable). The gap between the "No" and the "4 1/2" would indicate the casting is later (Type 7 rather than Type 6), but the dates on the cap iron and brass nut are from the earlier type.

Does the lateral lever have 2 or 3 dates stamped into it? If it has a third (7-24-88) that would also lean it towards a type 7.

In any event, there's nothing obvious of concern (of it being a "bitsa"). I prefer the low front knob, but they do get broken so may well have been replaced.

Overall, a very nice plane, and I love the feel of the models from this era.

Thanks Sploo, I was reasonably ok that it was proper, however good to get hear yours and Jobandknock s views.