Staircase Workings.

[Stormer1940]

Hi I am in need of a little advice. I have made straight staircase and have assembled winder staircase but never set a winder staircase out.
When it comes to working the going and rise out is it any different than the calculations you use for a straight flight?

The wind is at the bottom as in as soon as you step onto the stair you will have one step and then it will turn 90 degrees into a straight flight.


My total going is 3330mm and ffl is 2820mm.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[gwr]

http://popularstairs.com/basic-stair-bu ... airs/part2
Hi Stormer try this link for setting out stairs.

 

[Stormer1940]

Cheers mate.

 

[blackrodd]

Or this, https://www.kwikstairs.co.uk/files/00-Instructions.pdf
Regards Rodders

 

[PAC1]

The only way I can get my head around it is with a story board and full scale drawing (usually a sheet of hardboard) of the winders and then set it out on the newel post and stringers. No doubt there are other ways but I no where I am with this method

 

[Stormer1940]

The only way I can get my head around it is with a story board and full scale drawing (usually a sheet of hardboard) of the winders and then set it out on the newel post and stringers. No doubt there are other ways but I no where I am with this method

 

[Eric The Viking]

I've got a death-defying book on Tangent Handrailing and similar horribly complex stuff. I read it when I can't get to sleep.

The author, George di Cristina, seems to have been the authority on the subject on the USA West Coast (and the illustrations in the book are stunning). He says:

(a) He draws out everything full-size in the workshop, and for really complex ones makes full-scale mockups in ply/MDF, and...

(b) For winding or curved stairs, calculates the wind geometry by using a notional footstep-path, the travelling line, about 15" out from the newel post(s). On that line, the space between the winders is roughly the same as for a straight staircase of the same pitch (see p.38 and Fig. 20 of his book in particular).

It's a bit like having an excellent magician (Steve?) explain something - merely knowing a bit about it doesn't mean in the slightest you can perform the trick!

I'm guessing Mr. di Cristina is no longer with us (he'd probably be over 100 by now, as he started in 1931!). Whenever I catch one of those old Hollywood musicals on TV with a huge curved, fanning-out staircase that Fred and Ginger are dancing down, it reminds me - he probably helped make some of those.

E.

PS: The internet is amazing. This looks like the firm, sadly. His business seems also to have spawned a record label of the same name, although that doesn't seem to have updated its blog since 2007.... [later]: J Di Cristina & Son Stair Builders, 2745 16th St, San Francisco, CA 94103-4215. Seems to have traded for well over 50 years, but the ground floor doesn't look as if it's being used for setting out staircases any more.

 

[blackrodd]

The only way I can get my head around it is with a story board and full scale drawing (usually a sheet of hardboard) of the winders and then set it out on the newel post and stringers. No doubt there are other ways but I no where I am with this method

If that's what you are comfortable with then that's the way to go.
I'm not much for graphs and suchlike, myself, always draw a skid full size,
Plasterboard is my favourite, Just like a large sheet of paper!
Regards Rodders

 

[Bigbud78]

The rises's will be the same as a standard stair but the goings will obviously vary across the tread, I've never built one but I've detailed plenty of steel helical stairs. Its all about the radius's

 

[Jacob]

I'd be cautious with gwrs link above to popularstairs.com. Their winder designs are very complicated and unusual. I don't know if they are trying to be clever or have just not read building regs thoroughly.
You find those multiple tapered treads on very fancy 19C "geometric" stair designs (PS or helical, spiral or wide stairs, which their drawings do not show).

More common is as below, which doesn't take up any more space than those multiple tapered steps and is safer - the wide winders working almost like mini landings.

 

[blackrodd]

I expect you have thought of this, It may be a good idea to check out building regs before you start setting out.
http://www.tkstairs.com/staircase-infor ... ns-uk.html
I'm not sure this is the latest to comply with, There's a download link.
The winders are at the bottom of the opening page.
HTH Regards Rodders

 

[Stormer1940]

I'd be cautious with gwrs link above to popularstairs.com. Their winder designs are very complicated and unusual. I don't know if they are trying to be clever or have just not read building regs thoroughly.
You find those multiple tapered treads on very fancy 19C "geometric" stair designs (PS or helical, spiral or wide stairs, which their drawings do not show).

More common is as below, which doesn't take up any more space than those multiple tapered steps and is safer - the wide winders working almost like mini landings.

Thanks guys.

Jacob 3 kite winder was probably the way I was going to go. It can get awfully confusing when searching online and get mixed info :lol:

 

[n0legs]

The only way I can get my head around it is with a story board and full scale drawing (usually a sheet of hardboard) of the winders and then set it out on the newel post and stringers. No doubt there are other ways but I no where I am with this method

I did that when I made my stairs, drew it out on the workshop floor in chalk. Worked a treat and fitted first time
To me it seemed the most logical. There's nothing lost in translation.

 

[HOJ]

I use this site just to check my measurements, to see if it works, before I layout my rods and templates.

http://www.stairbox.com/stairs/stairbuilder.html

Plus a copy of Part K Building regs, freely available

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/buildingregulations/approveddocuments/partk/approved

 

[Stormer1940]

I use this site just to check my measurements, to see if it works, before I layout my rods and templates.

http://www.stairbox.com/stairs/stairbuilder.html

Plus a copy of Part K Building regs, freely available

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/buildingregulations/approveddocuments/partk/approved

Very handy link. Thanks HOJ :lol:

 

[Stormer1940]

The only way I can get my head around it is with a story board and full scale drawing (usually a sheet of hardboard) of the winders and then set it out on the newel post and stringers. No doubt there are other ways but I no where I am with this method

Out of interest what measurements do you record on your story rod for the stairs?

 

[PAC1]

The important measurements are:
FFL to FFL to give the overall Rise
The top of the joist especially if the string will sit on it if you do not have newel posts at the top but even if you have posts it is good to know the size of the joists
If the Newel posts are starting below FFL then you need to know how much below.
I then mark and number each rise and tread
I mark where the winders will be height wise again if there is a newel post you need to know the correct position along with where the string will mortice into the newel at the start of the winders.
You might also want to note what the arrangement is at the other side of the winders as the stringer will be different
The same applies to half and quarter landings it is easy to miss a step (literally) if you do not record the positions.