Spray finishing MDF edges - How I do it

[Richard Findley]

Hi Jeff,

They colour match in the 362!!!???? D'oh!! If I'd realised that I wouldn't have just bought another 5lt of the 9 series colourmatched!!!! Ah well, once I've used this can up (lasts about a year on this particular job unfortunatley) I will get it in the 362. Worth knowing for the future though!!

Glad I could be of assistance.

Cheers

Richard

 

[Solidmind]

Hi all!

Fantastic work! I found this thread on how to get mirror result on MDF. Could perhaps be of interest too some...

http://shoryuken.com/f177/how-paint-mdf ... og-191692/

Take care

 

[lemonjeff]

Hi Richard,
I've started using the 362 top coats, your right it's a tough coating.
I'm using a HVLP turbine setup did you try this paint using your Apollo? If so what were the problem(s) you had with the gun?
Also do you thin the 362?

Cheers,

Jeff.

 

[Richard Findley]

Hi Jeff,

I originally started spraying with my old Apollo but it packed up about the same time as I started using the 362. My Apollo was the cheapo entry level thing and the gun started not spraying properly, I think some of the washers/other bits and bobs inside were wearing but they don't do spares and they discontinued that particular set up hence why I moved on. That said, it more than paid for itself and gave me a good introduction to the world of spraying!

I do thin the 362 a little although it is supplied "ready for use" (RFU). I find that, because of the daft tins that it comes in, it's best (for me anyway) to decant it into smaller containers that pour easier. In my case I use 1lt Robinson squash bottles (I drink a lot of squash so I have a steady supply of these!) I give the can a really good shake to mix it and then put about an inch of clean water in the bottom of each bottle and then with a funnel I pour it out. This much water gives me about another 1/2 litre of paint and doing some sums in my head I reckon that means it's thinned to about 10% which is the recommended maximum amount.

I think a lot of it depends on what it is you are spraying but I find this works for me.

HTH

Richard

 

[Maverick UK]

Resurrected once before, and hoping to do it again, but it is the best article on spraying MDF I’ve found on the web (and the best finish). I’m looking to spray MDF and having read around and got a lot from this post, I was hoping for a bit of further guidance on getting the same finish achieved by Richard. Sorry for such a direct list of questions but all the kit seems to add up and I’m trying to ensure I don’t spend money on the wrong things.

1.) I see Morrells White Primer 8005/641 (Waterbourne) was suggested, but wondered if there would be a reason for this to be better than the 8004/400 Basecoat?

2.) Also, when using the Morrells 362 Severe Use Waterbourne Lacquer, will any of the sheen rates work the same, or is there a sheen rate you suggest (Ideally I’m after a mid sheen, but finish quality is most important)?

3.) Would it be suggested to always use the clear 90% after, or will the 2nd coat of the 362 lacquer be enough (and still tough)?

4.) I’ve got a friend who has two new Devilbiss GTi Pro guns to sell and was wondering if anyone could advise which would be better. One is a Devilbiss GTi Pro H1B-12 (which I think is HVLP) and the other a Devilbiss GTi Pro T1B-13 (which I think is their Trans Tech). Assuming one would be right, any idea which would be best?

5.) Finally, any guidance on a compressor/turbine for the spray gun? I’m not sure the difference. I saw spraygunsdirect have a compressor for about £200.

Thanks in advance for any time. I can always post some pics on the forum after.

 

[Dibs-h]

Traditional paint guns have a published requirement for air - usually expressed in CFM (Cubic Feet per minute). You need to look this up on Devilbiss's website. They do make craking paint guns, as do Iwata.

Then ensure that the compressor you buy has at least the output to match the gun. You are going to need to ensure you don't mixup the compressors "air displacement" with what it actually delivers, which IIRC is called FAD (free air delivery), which is noticeably less.

For a traditional paint gun, albeit HVLP - you'll need a compressor with some grunt, especially if you want to paint reasonable sized areas.

Turbines - have a crappy Earlex (starter one from years ago), a Apollo 700\800 (can't remember which) and a Fuji Q4 or something. The Fuji - I haven't used yet. But the Earlex requires the paint thinned down a lot more than the Apollo and pushed out less, therefore takes longer. So the more the grunt of the turbine, the less the thinning required and also the higher the workrate.

The Fuji, I expect will put the the Apollo into the shade - but it's a damn sight more in cost and when you throw in the cost of 3M's PPS stuff - it doesn't get cheaper.

A lot of folk here use the Earlex 5000 or something which is reviewed on Wood Whisperer's (or something) web site - and I haven't heard anyone complain about the Earlex 5000.

HIH

Dibs

 

[mailee]

Dibbs is correct about the standard air guns they do need a lot of air especially the De Vilbis guns in HVLP. I think you will be looking at around 7 - 10 CFM for the gun! For this you will need a large compressor and a large tank. Then you will probably find you have to increase the diameter of the air hose to 3/8" to handle the extra volume of air. I use a large compressor with an output of 13CFM and run a cheap HVLP gun (Bergen) and it handles it fine without any thinning but it does mean the compressor cuts in more often. I have recently tried one of the turbine sprayers (Apollo) but found it slow for large panels. Not to mention the need to thin the paint. If slow application speed and thinner paint is no problem to you then I would go turbine. If you want to spray larger items then I would think about bigger is better. Of course if you don't need HVLP then you can go for a smaller setup with a standard air fed gun. HTH. :wink:

 

[Mcluma]

Alan,

Your hvlp sprayer, what nozzle does it got, 0.8?

 

[mailee]

No Chris it's a 1.8. I know this is a little on the large side but gives me a fast application.

 

[Dibs-h]

Not to mention the need to thin the paint. If slow application speed and thinner paint is no problem to you then I would go turbine. If you want to spray larger items then I would think about bigger is better. Of course if you don't need HVLP
then you can go for a smaller setup with a standard air fed gun. HTH. :wink:

I would have thought even with a traditional air fed gun (HVLP), you would still need to thin the paint? With a traditional gun (non HVLP) it might seem that the gun is putting out a lot of material, but not all of it is going where required.

With a pro level turbine - I don't believe speed is an issue. Something to bear in mind is that for a compressor able to put out enough CFM for an air fed HVLP gun, you might find yourself in 3 phase territory.

The Apollo I have is more than able deal with the job, I've used it for - the large workshop door I made last year (or whenever ) I painted that and it never felt slow and the finish was spanking. The paint by the way was Sikkens Rubbol (solvent based)

http://sikkens.trade-decorating.co.uk/p ... a_plus.jsp

and the door, well you can see for yourself,

The windows I made for the workshop - these were sprayed in Sikkens WB and again no issues.

In both cases the amount of thinning was more or less as per the datasheet from Sikkens. So even if one used a traditional air fed gun (HVLP or non HVLP) the paint would still need to be thinned.

Dibs

 

[mailee]

No Dibbs, the only thinner I use is to clean out my gun. I have never thinned Morrells paint using my HVLP gun.

 

[Dibs-h]

No Dibbs, the only thinner I use is to clean out my gun. I have never thinned Morrells paint using my HVLP gun.

My experience with spraying prior to this has been with automotive WB and 2K, both of which have been thinned prior to spraying with traditional air fed guns, both HVLP and non-HVLP.

I've got a chest of drawers to make for my son's bedroom in painted MDF so will be using Morrell's. It will be interesting how the Fuji copes with that. Might make a note of trying out the Apollo HVLP as well and see how that fairs too.

Will post up, on how I get on.

Thanks

Dibs

 

[mailee]

Yes Dibbs I agree we used to thin the automotive paint at work too but the Morrells stuff seems to work well without. It does need a larger needle but I have had no problems so far. I did have to thin it a little with a conventional LVHP gun though. I will be interested on how you get on with the Turbine guns with it. :wink:

 

[Maverick UK]

Hi all, thanks for the responses following my resurection of the post. I've had a look in to the earlex and am tempted to try one. Thought I might try and see where I can get with the Devilbiss GTI Pro if I can. If anyone has any thoughts on my original questions on the Devilbiss models, that would be great.

 

[LyNx]

how much are the GTI pro's?? I' ve been advised not really suitable for wood finishes.

 

[the_g_ster]

It's great this post has been going so long.

Some good advice though, you gotta love this forum.

 

[doctor Bob]

Just my twopence .... I'd be very wary about spraying a clear coat over a white unless the product is "non yellowing".
If it isn't your white will have a yellow tinge in about 6 weeks.

 

[Lark]

no good onlines sellers?... no place near me...

i been trying to finish mdf to black and dont have to be ultra glossy but would be nice.....
i keep having to take all the paint off and start again (3 or 4th time now) im starting to go crazy lol.... i have one the Earlex Spray......
had to make 2 more back parts of mdf today...

 

[mailee]

Lark, do you mean no online suppliers of Morrells paint? If so here is one:
http://www.jpennyltd.co.uk/shopping/sta ... se=1&cat=2
If not sorry I misunderstood.

 

[Lark]

thanks i used the web site in the links with 10% off .. as i could get 1L water bassed as 5l bit much for trial and not often ill use it

i was wondering what u recommend i also have an earlex 5000 i have 2.0 needle.. so ordered 1.5 and got the 1 by mistake but get to keep it as well
my question would be

waterbased primer guess 2.0 needle?
waterbased black gloss varnish/lacquer 2.0/1.5?
waterbased clear gloss 1.5 or would 1.0 be better

any tips welcome may try cellous one in the future but 5L £40 a tin or more bit much for hobbyist