Spindle tooling advice

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markturner

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As title, as proud new owner of a Hammer F3 I am looking to get some tooling and spend as wisely as possible. I will mostly be using for rebating, gooving, tenoning, and the occasional bit of profiling for sash window bars etc.

I have been looking at getting one of these: https://www.whitehill-tools.com/cutter-heads/combi-heads/070S00050/ which I presume, with the addition of the appropriate shaping cutters, perform all my requirements?
 
Well, no! A single block won’t cover all those requirements….if only😂😂
I’d look on auction sites, blocks are always coming up. You can use top hat reduces to enable 1 1/4” blocks to ge used in a 30mm spindle. They are often much cheaper than 30mm blocks.
A suggested rebate
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20472034...8mfAKrtRtW&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

You should be able to get a 50mm rebate, 40 and 55mm profile block and have change out of what that one block would cost.
I’d suggest a dedicated Whitehill tenoner and an adjustable groover to fulfill your other needs. Again all come up on eBay every now and again.
 
As title, as proud new owner of a Hammer F3 I am looking to get some tooling and spend as wisely as possible. I will mostly be using for rebating, gooving, tenoning, and the occasional bit of profiling for sash window bars etc.

I have been looking at getting one of these: https://www.whitehill-tools.com/cutter-heads/combi-heads/070S00050/ which I presume, with the addition of the appropriate shaping cutters, perform all my requirements?
It doesn’t look like it will take conventional Euro cutters, although it doesn’t specify.

My guess is it is designed to take the whitehill scribe cutters that fit in their tenon blocks
 
The Whitehill block linked in the original post will take any 55mm scribes and I think 40mm Euro blocks because the pins are the same width.
A dedicated tenoner block / disc usually takes 30mm cutters. You can use a rebate block for tenons not scribed but you are limited to depth unless using a spindle that sits flush with the block surface.
 
I am not questioning the advice, which is gratefully recieved, but just asking for some clarification, as all this is new to me.....for tenoning, if I brought this block, I would have to do 2 passes, cut first bottom pass then turn the workpiece over to do the top one.....and it would do a pretty deep tenon, almost as deep as the cutter, once the spindle is brought down to the appropriate height. It could also by using the appropriate cutters such as here: https://www.whitehill-tools.com/profile-cutters/30mm-profiles/ cut any small grooves or profiles I wanted. And of course, various size rebates. What wont it do, from my list of requirements? From what I have seen of the cost of some of the tooling, getting all that for maybe £350 with some groove cutters seems pretty reasonable? And all new? And are whitehill profile cutters and euro cutters not interchangeable? And do you recommend cast iron over aluminium? I have a lot to learn.....:)
 
The Whitehill block linked in the original post will take any 55mm scribes and I think 40mm Euro blocks because the pins are the same width.
A dedicated tenoner block / disc usually takes 30mm cutters. You can use a rebate block for tenons not scribed but you are limited to depth unless using a spindle that sits flush with the block surface.
That’s interesting, I looked at the Whitehill link, but it doesn’t say anything about the cutter spec.

The annoying thing about Euroblocks universal profile blocks is whilst they have the same pin dimensions and centres, different blocks take different thickness cutters and some cutters you can’t use in some blocks because the block is proud of parts of the profile.
 
I would not get the combi head but just a normal whitehill limiter head for 55mm knives and/or maybe a cheap "euro" head to get going.
Sometimes if you buy a euro head they will come with a choice of various cutters and limiters, these are the cheapest cutters available and for the price of that combi head you could get a fair few knives. Ebay is a good source if you keep your eyes peeled, don`t be scared of second hand stuff, but I would avoid any non limiter type blocks.

Just a quick list of the heads in the cupboard, of the the top of my head.

30mm x 96mm whitehill limiter head (for running in conjunction with 125 x 55mm rebate head)
125mm x 55mm rebate head TCT inserts
96mm x 55mm limiter head
Euro limiter head (a few of these)
Adjustable groover head 15mm to 29mm TCT inserts
96mm x 100mm limiter head ( for doing cills and stuff, much cheaper than a dedicated cill block )
A pair of 125mm by 30mm tenon disks ( run together with spacers, one for scribe, one matching square cutter )
One specialy shaped head that takes extra thick knives that I needed for some crazy shaped sash horns.
A 200mm Omas multi profile panel raising head
Tc mould radius head. ,(also run in conjunction with the 125 x 55 rebate head but takes tct profile inserts)

Ollie
 
My advice would be to speak with Whitehill, tell them what you want to be doing, and they can advise what is best. They spent a large amount of time helping me out when I was in your position a couple of years ago (the owner David even rang me to discuss my options!). Really helpful people and I found them great to deal with, especially for a newbie.
 
My advice would be to speak with Whitehill, tell them what you want to be doing, and they can advise what is best. They spent a large amount of time helping me out when I was in your position a couple of years ago (the owner David even rang me to discuss my options!). Really helpful people and I found them great to deal with, especially for a newbie.
Helpful certainly and what they make is great quality. However, the knives are getting considerably more expensive lately, my last order was quite a lot more than I was expecting for a few custom ground profiles.
 
the knives are getting considerably more expensive lately
There are other options, but @deema doesn't want me to mention him...

Back to the OP.

The only advice I can offer is to take stock, evaluate your project, and plan out what it is you intend to make, you will go down a rabbit hole buying blocks and cutters too soon, only to find they don't deliver.
getting all that for maybe £350
Using a single block to perform multiple functions will be fraught with frustration and probably lead to early project failure

Your in London, is Horsham to far to go? Scott & Sargent are there, or even up to Luton, to Whitehill, they would be in position to assist in evaluating your project design and narrow down the blocks and cutter profiles you would need.

I wouldn't necessarily advocate either as the best option for buying from, but in your situation they will be best positioned to offer sound advice.

And for what its worth I've spent more than £350.00 on cutters being made for one job.
 
And for what its worth I've spent more than £350.00 on cutters being made for one job.
very easily.

I agree that you should just buy the ones you need for the job in hand, gradually you get more as you need them. Unless you can find a joiner selling up and buy a job lot.
 
my last order was quite a lot more than I was expecting for a few custom ground profiles
I can recommend somebody who can do 55mm Euro or whitehill cutters profile ground with limiters for around £75 incl vat delivered.
 
Tooling is by far the largest expense of the spindle moulder, but then it is still more economical in the long term than table routers and router bits. You can find good deals on auction sites occasionally but very rarely as tooling tends to hold its value well, I have seen used Whitehill blocks go for more than they would cost new excluding the VAT.

My personal "essentials" list for general machining work and joinery would be:

Whitehill 96 x 55 Limiter Head, in an ideal world you want several of these but when you're starting out one will do until you get sick of changing cutters and end up needing more to save time on set up. The 96 x 55mm limiter head is the standard size especially when it comes to fitting Whitehill's own cutters for profiling joinery in conjunction with other tooling. There are cheaper imitations and other sizes but I strongly recommend keeping to the 96 x 55mm size, the cheap Chinese blocks should be avoided as they have very poor tolerances on the pin placements and the cutters will not cut in unison correctly.

Whitehill 125mm x 60mm Rebate Block, in conjunction with the 96 x 55mm limiter block fitted with corresponding cutters from Whitehill, the 125mm rebate block is the standard size for producing joinery profiles such as door frames, doors, casements, etc... The smaller sizes of rebate block (such as the 125mm x 50mm) are useful but the 125mm x 60mm allows for more flexibility in work as most modern doors are 56mm thick to account for double glazing so the door frame rebate ends up being around 61mm in depth when accounting for draught seal and a 50mm block is not large enough to remove in a single pass.

Whitehill 140mm x 3mm Grooving Saw, this is placed underneath the 60mm rebate block to cut the groove for draught seals in the perimeter of the frame, for seals such as Aquamac 21 or Deventer SPV.

Whitehill (or Omas) 160mm x 8-15mm Adjustable Plate Groover, for running grooves and smaller rebates.

Whitehill (or Omas) 160mm x 12.5-22 Adjustable Plate Groover, for running grooves and smaller rebates, with the added benefit that you can run small tenons like for shaker kitchen doors by inverting the plates to the typical arrangement.

Axcaliber 21 seal cutter or Whitehill 21 seal cutter, for cutting Aquamac 21 wiping seals in door and window frames, the Axcaliber is significantly cheaper than the Whitehill version but the Whitehill does produce a cleaner cut over the long term.

There are other blocks that are nice to have but aren't required on a regular enough basis to warrant buying them from the outset, buy them when required.
 
As title, as proud new owner of a Hammer F3 I am looking to get some tooling and spend as wisely as possible. I will mostly be using for rebating, gooving, tenoning, and the occasional bit of profiling for sash window bars etc.

I have been looking at getting one of these: https://www.whitehill-tools.com/cutter-heads/combi-heads/070S00050/ which I presume, with the addition of the appropriate shaping cutters, perform all my requirements?
If I was starting from scratch I recon that's an excellent starting point. Not used a multi function head but cant see any reason why it wont do what it claims.

I picked up some large tenoning heads for my Felder in one of their sales but still find the depth limiting so being able to pass wood right over that head would be bonus.

For grooves I love my wobble saw.
 
A simple single purpose rebate block better, or you could spend hours swapping cutters in the middle of a job.
Then a wobble saw for slots.
Then a huge range of alternatives for profiles.
Personally I went for the old Whitehill pattern block and making my own cutters, mainly because I was replicating old profiles which is just about impossible bought off the peg. Also it is very cheap - even cheaper than buying router cutters. But that may be a step too far until you've got your hand in!
I never got around to tenons - I always thought I'd get the proper machine for the job eventually, but never did.
And two push sticks - even if you have power feed etc.
 

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