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Spindle moulder cutter blocks

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peter-harrison

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Jordhandson

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40mm block.....

I have an axminster spindle moulder ( a rebadged jet ) which has an 3/4" spindle, a 1" and a spindle with 1/2" router collet.... i believe it 2hp, but I'd have to check.... pretty similar i bet.
The guy i bought it off had got 30mm and 1 1/4" adaptors for it, so i can use both sizes. i have one 30mm bore 40mm thick block and i just change cutters and limiters as required, but will get a rebate block and vari angle block in time.

You can make shaw guards using threaded bar, nuts and mild steel blocks ( 50 x 50 x 20 block is £5 on ebay ) and old handsaw blades can be cut to width, flexed and screwed into position for a basic shaw guard..... or 300mm steel rulers....
I will eventually get round to making a sprung roller assembly for mine. I'd love power feed but i dont use it enough to justify the outlay



Kev cheers for the ideas regarding the shaw guards, your moulder sounds I useful bit of kit, I like the idea of having a spindle with a 1/2” router collet, I may have to look into turning one if my router’s spins fast enough.

I got a bit more done on the safety hood today, this is the main piece welded up, it will now bolt to the table and slide on the bolts. I gave it a quick blast in the cabinet to clean it up. I have to pick up some 50x50 tube in the morning to make the fence slides next.

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Jordhandson

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Perhaps but as it's low powered maybe no point as you wouldn't be able to do a deep 50mm rebate in one pass.Might as well be two passes with the smaller block


Good point Cheers Jacob 40mm save me a bit of money as well, one thing I have notice there are aliuminium blocks as well are these any better or worse
 

clogs

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I went with steel blocks, ally can stretch and bend....worried me a bit....
u know when the bolt feels tight with steel.....
unless it's a special alloy mix....preferably made by NASA.....
 

Jordhandson

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I went with steel blocks, ally can stretch and bend....worried me a bit....
u know when the bolt feels tight with steel.....
unless it's a special alloy mix....preferably made by NASA.....

Good point clogs (y)I do a get bit beefy when doing things up, so its got to be a steel one for me also.


Cheers
 

RobinBHM

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I have acquired a kitty 629 spindle moulder, currently in storage whilst the workshop is finished, however I am beginning to regret the purchase as I think it is going to be very expensive for tooling compared to a router table, and a very steep learning curve on using and setting up safely.
I had a Kity 629 spindle moulder, nice machine and certainly good enough quality for accurate work.

The setting up is not difficult, it’s very easy….certainly not a steep learning curve.

setting up to use safely is not difficult either. The key points are:

1. use a modern universal 2 pin Euro block, don’t buy 2nd hand tooling

2. make a false, one piece fence - it could have a biggish cut out to cover most profiles.

3. for hand feeding, obviously use pressure guards.

4. when doing a trial and error set up, use a piece of scrap a minimum foot long than the length of the indeed fence - so you can grip the trial piece firmly and pull it back securely.



5. learn a standard check procedure to double check everything is correctly tightened.


once you are used to using a spindle moulder, changing from one set up to another takes 5 to 10 mins.

Cutters for a universal block are quite cheap really and If you know where to get them a set of special ground cutters to your dwg can be had for £80 delivered With limiters.
 

RobinBHM

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Good point clogs (y)I do a get bit beefy when doing things up, so its got to be a steel one for me also.


Cheers
Don’t overtighten the spindle nut, once hand tight a tweak with the spanner is enough. Ive done loads of work professionally with a spindle moulder, if you over tighten, you’ve just got to use loads to force to undo. I’ve never had a block come loose.

When tightening the allen head screws for the cutters, they do need to be tight, but don’t over tighten or you will round off the hex and wear the threads…..rendering the block less safe not more.

As a safety precaution, I lay a lump of 6” x 6” timber on the spindle bed before turning on the machine - as anything not tightened properly will come off as the machine is getting up to speed.
 

Jacob

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And if you are a novice, practice first by cutting little rebates on big pieces of timber - just about the least hazardous thing you could do. You soon get a feel for it.
The smaller the workpiece the more carefully and precisely it needs to be held and fed through.
 

Jar944

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I have a mix of steel and aluminum 40mm, rebate blocks and groovers. They all seem to work well. I do prefer steel generally but in application im not sure if there is any difference.
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Jar944

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These whitehill style blocks were never available here. I actually like the design and would personally use them. If you were ever grind your own knives you can tweak how they sit in the head to provide better alignment if the grind isn't 100% perfect (unlike a pin or corrugated head)
 

Jacob

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These whitehill style blocks were never available here. I actually like the design and would personally use them. If you were ever grind your own knives you can tweak how they sit in the head to provide better alignment if the grind isn't 100% perfect (unlike a pin or corrugated head)
They pile up! About third of these made by me the others various job lots bought over the years.
Spindle is very much cheaper to run than a router and and much more versatile/productive .
They get used, modified, different profiles added to the same cutter
Some of them end up like tiny shards and not really usable. Needs to be solid blade behind the holding bolt, not just nipped in the jaws as thats where problems begin - jaws get splayed etc

cutters.JPG


This is a solitary "french" cutter in the collection. Never used by me. It slip into a slot in the spindle held down by the bolt with the 20mm notch below keeping it located on what must have been a 20mm dia spindle or 1" perhaps? Later spindle moulders don't have the slot.
It cuts a tongue, may have had a partner for cutting the groove but this could be done with wobble saw etc

frenchcutter.JPG
 
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Doug71

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I have both aluminium and steel blocks for my old 3 phase Wadkin and there seems to be no difference in performance between the two types apart from the steel ones take more spinning up to speed (and stopping obviously).

I know someone with a 2hp Kity moulder and they say it really lags if they try to spin the heavier steel blocks so they would recommend the Aluminium.

As Robin said you don't need to tighten things down that hard so you won't damage the block.
 

clogs

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as an engineer I don't overtighten anythging.....
but I was thinking of others less experienced....
ally blocks over time will mis-shapen it's just in it's nature....
It's a bit like wood u keep bending it over time and after a while it will take on another shape......
also yes ur correct that steel blocks will take a little longer to spin up but when the work starts it also act like a flywheel.....
I have an as new transportable Kitty 429 and a 4hp shop spindle...
both do a nice job.....but still wish I had my Wadkin EQ.....
 

ScottandSargeant

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Hi well here is my first question, hopefully someone on here can advise. I have been making do with my home made router table

View attachment 120401 View attachment 120402

and now want to upgrade to something a bit sturdier. I have and old spindle moulder I picked it up a couple years ago and has been kept under a sheet.
View attachment 120405
I think its a Robinsons but dont quote me, I am in the process of cleaning it up and getting it all running and up together. Ive check out out the bearing and there are great I have fitted the motor back on and got everything running free and started to clean the top.

View attachment 120407
I have started to make up some fences and safety guard this will get me going till I either find the correct ones which could be a challenge or till I fabricate up something more permanent.

View attachment 120408
It does have a couple of cutter blocks but

View attachment 120409 View attachment 120410
wanting to be a bit more safety conscious I am going to buy a new euro block with the limiters. My question is do I go for 40mm or 50mm there about a tenner difference in price so I am leaning toward the 50mm one as it will give me more scope.

Am I thinking correct. Cheers
40mm euro blocks will accept 50mm cutters and limiters.
Be very careful with the serrated block… it is designed to be used on a mechanically fed machine and has a higher chance of kickback.… and greater injuries. There were some experiments on injuries using pigs tails.(not pleasant)
The old whitehill block needs knowledge to use and they are now considered dangerous as there are no location pins and rp the jaws can get distorted by over tightening which makes them even less safe.
 

deema

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Aluminium blocks enable smaller motors to be used. Steel blocks are heavier, and as such have much more inertia that the motor has to overcome when starting up, and more momentum to overcome when stopping. The inrush current is one of the biggest fatigues of motors, which is why repeated starting and stopping of motors isn’t desirable, most applications where this is required use a clutch to allow this eg metal working lathe. Spinning up a smaller weight also uses less electricity.
Stopping a wood working machine is either done by a braked motor, or much more these days by DC injection. Stopping a spindle quickly requires less effort with a lighter load. You often now see the maximum mass a spindle can handle specified to allow the brake circuit to be designed correctly.

The extra mass of a steel block will potentially produce a smoother finish, as the extra momentum will help. However, I don’t think it’s sufficiently noticeable for it to be a reason to chose steel blocks.

All Materials distort, and only if you exceed their elastic limit does that distortion become fixed. Modern blocks that rely on pins and wedges to hold cutters are in essence immune to minute distortions, intrinsically, the wedges are self locking, the faster they are spun the tighter they hold onto the cutters. The cutters can’t come out as they are both pinned and wedge locked into place.

So, what would I buy? Well I’d buy aluminium blocks every day unless it was an industrial setting. Aluminium will be kinder to my machines, lighter to lug around and store without worrying about rust. I would use steel in an industrial environment only because they are likely to get knocked about a bit, and steel is more resilient to this as they won’t be treated with the same reverence as by the person who has put their hand in their pockets to buy them.
 

Jordhandson

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I have a mix of steel and aluminum 40mm, rebate blocks and groovers. They all seem to work well. I do prefer steel generally but in application im not sure if there is any difference.View attachment 120749
View attachment 120750

Jar, that's truly a lovely set of cutter blocks, sexy, yes I know there’s something wrong with me lol:D who needs paintings hanging on a wall:LOL:
 

Jordhandson

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40mm euro blocks will accept 50mm cutters and limiters.
Be very careful with the serrated block… it is designed to be used on a mechanically fed machine and has a higher chance of kickback.… and greater injuries. There were some experiments on injuries using pigs tails.(not pleasant)
The old whitehill block needs knowledge to use and they are now considered dangerous as there are no location pins and rp the jaws can get distorted by over tightening which makes them even less safe.

Cheers ScottandSargeant(y) I have just figured there are blocks for power feed and block for manual feed.
 

Jordhandson

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Don’t overtighten the spindle nut, once hand tight a tweak with the spanner is enough. Ive done loads of work professionally with a spindle moulder, if you over tighten, you’ve just got to use loads to force to undo. I’ve never had a block come loose.

When tightening the allen head screws for the cutters, they do need to be tight, but don’t over tighten or you will round off the hex and wear the threads…..rendering the block less safe not more.

As a safety precaution, I lay a lump of 6” x 6” timber on the spindle bed before turning on the machine - as anything not tightened properly will come off as the machine is getting up to speed.
[/QUOTE

I lay a lump of 6” x 6” timber on the spindle bed before turning on the machine (y) Good tip
 

Jordhandson

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Bit of an update.
I had my Wealden tool co catalogues and price lists arrive yesterday, I had a quick read before bed lol:) I am pleasantly surprised with the cost of some of the cutters. Today I have got the fence adjusters more or less finished, and attached to the main hood part.

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I have to source or make some knobs for the fence adjusters and lock. If I make them I think they will be the T handle type. For the fence I shall use a piece of hard wood or failing that 25mm mdf board for the sub fences then tack a sacrificial fence and bury the cutter into it. At least I can get all these things done before I get any cutters its slow but progressing steady.
 
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