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Spindle moulder cutter blocks

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sawdustandwax

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I have acquired a kitty 629 spindle moulder, currently in storage whilst the workshop is finished, however I am beginning to regret the purchase as I think it is going to be very expensive for tooling compared to a router table, and a very steep learning curve on using and setting up safely.
very good info here on setup and use
 

peter-harrison

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Yes it is a bit!
The two blocks you've got would break HSE rules in the workplace, but what you do on your own in your workshop is nobody else business. I use blocks just like these two as well as more modern and safer ones. The lower one is safer as the cutters are held in by the serrations (if you have the rest of the mechanism not in the photo) but doesn't have limiters and could whip a finger off. So you'd need to learn as much as you can first and use all safety measures , basically guards and most importantly, two push sticks and great caution.
50mm new block might not retract all the way into the well and would limit smaller rebates, so you need to measure the depth.
It's a smallish machine so a whole 50 x 12.5 mm rebate may need two passes anyway
Machine looks good!
I've used both types, and now use the Euro blocks 99% of the time. What Jacob says about what you do in your own workshop is your own affair is true... but if you have an accident using non safety blocks, I don't think any insurance would pay out- if you have any! Happy to be corrected on that, but that's my understanding.
 

Jacob

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I've used both types, and now use the Euro blocks 99% of the time. What Jacob says about what you do in your own workshop is your own affair is true... but if you have an accident using non safety blocks, I don't think any insurance would pay out- if you have any! Happy to be corrected on that, but that's my understanding.
You might be right but I think the TS is much more dangerous and people are very lax with them.
Spindle reputation probably from the bad old days of square blocks, french cutters and flying bits of broken blade.
The OPs two blocks were the new improved and approved safety blocks until quite recently,1990 ish.
 

scholar

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very good info here on setup and use
I bought the Roy Sutton DVD many years ago and found it very valuable.

As a salutary reminder of all his safety guidance, count the number of complete fingers he has..

Cheers

PS I got a power feed for the spindle moulder and that gets used for virtually everything I do with the machine - it does feel much safer (as well as producing a smoother cut).
 

guineafowl21

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Jordhandson

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Wow what a responce after a slow start. Thanks to all,(y) now let go do some reading lol:)
 

Jordhandson

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The 2 pin Euro universal blocks aren’t as err universal as you might think.

the cutters come in various thicknesses including 4mm, 5mm, 5.5mm and I think 6mm. and they don’t fit in all blocks.

also some blocks have the pins set in further in the block and the cutter profile of some blocks doesn’t clear the block so you can’t get a full profile cut before the block starts to rub.

Personally I strongly recommend you consider getting a TCT rebate block - very handy for doing all sizes of rebates, even small tenons etc etc.


Robin thanks for this, some good things to look out for especially the cutter thickness
 

Jordhandson

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Thanks Jacob thats perfect, I shall mearsure the depth of travel into "the well" in the morning:)
Jacob, first job this morning, measure up “the well” there’s plenty of travel into it there is a good 100mm of clear travel also “the well” is approx 150mm diameter,
20211027_094011.jpg 20211027_094156.jpg 20211027_094306.jpg

So am I correct in thinking a 120mmX50mm cutter block should be OK???
 
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Jordhandson

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You can always add a false bed if the table opening is not large or deep enough.


(y) Jar my initall though was to fit a 25mm MDF false top on the table as I was thinking it would give me more scope with accessories I may still come back to this idea,my thinking I could also add a mitre track.:)
 

Jordhandson

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I bought the Roy Sutton DVD many years ago and found it very valuable.

As a salutary reminder of all his safety guidance, count the number of complete fingers he has..

Cheers

PS I got a power feed for the spindle moulder and that gets used for virtually everything I do with the machine - it does feel much safer (as well as producing a smoother cut).
(y)Scholar this was the first video I watched regarding moulders a few week ago very useful(y)
 

Jordhandson

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I have the same cutter block which I has an 11/4" bore, so I use reducer collars to fit it to my 30mm spindle.

I'm told it only needs one cutter as it's almost impossible to align 2 cutters without the location (and retention) pins. This makes it suitable for cutters that I grind myself (only if I have to). I've only ever used it with one cutter and it works well, but I was only removing minimal timber.

As well as guarding and a new fence you will need to consider how you are going to hold the stock timber against the fence, both vertically and horizontally. It needs to be robust as the cutters have a tendency to push the stock away from the cutter.

As to having a range of cutter blocks, apart from the one like yours I have a rebate block, a roundover block that can take a range of radius cutters and an old euro block that doesn't have the space for limiters. These seem to cover 95% of my needs.

Thanks for this Regarding the fence today I have had a bit of a rethink and decided to make some thing a bit more substantial with some offcuts of 6mm plate I have. Will hopefully get a bit more done tomorrow.

20211027_163357.jpg

I am hoping to mount the fences to the safety hood and have them move independently.


To hold the stock timber against the fence, both vertically and horizontally. I am hoping to make something like the Wadkin ones,

Spindle moulder pressure she.jpg



I did make up some feathers for the router table but I dont think they would take the force of the cutters on this machine will keep you posted.

(y)
 

Jordhandson

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What size motor does it have, and what is the spindle size?

As said above, you will likely end up with a couple of blocks, or more.... so maybe buy the 40mm to oick off with, the knives and limiters are cheap etc.... and look on the bay for sets ( try kity )

Hi Kev its not a powerful machine its only a 1.5Hp motor on a 1” spindle, bit more power than my router though :)funny enough there’s a Kity 429 Spindle Moulder on the bay finishing tonight I thought was cheap at the moment.
 

Jacob

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......

Good article on old cutter blocks here:
Interesting stuff. Very scary and quite right too!
The biggest difference between old and new is that the old ones were inherently dangerous and almost bound to break down and launch bits sooner or later, unless cracks spotted first.
The later ones were/are safer in that operator error is the bigger risk.
It gets a bit vague when you look at them as some of the very "safe" blocks the cutters and limiters actually extend quite far and hence could break off and fly. The older Whitehill block with no pins or serrations, just clamped, allows you to tuck them in close with minimal projection, depending on the design, which could be safer.
He missed out the most basic cutter of all which was the "french" cutter - just a piece of steel profiled at one or both ends and passed through a slot in the spindle with no block at all. Like a spinning chisel. Attractive because needing no block and easily shaped for a job in hand. But inherently weak as it scraped rather than cut and hence more stressed. Some (not all) had a safety feature - they were notched out so they couldn't leap for freedom even if not bolted hard down, they'd just rattle about uselessly instead, until they broke. I've got one somewhere I'll do a photo.
 
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Jacob

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Hi Kev its not a powerful machine its only a 1.5Hp motor on a 1” spindle, bit more power than my router though :)funny enough there’s a Kity 429 Spindle Moulder on the bay finishing tonight I thought was cheap at the moment.
5HP or more with 30mm or 1 1/4" spindle is more joinery size, but yours should still be useful, just slower with more passes
 

Jacob

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.....

So am I correct in thinking a 120mmX50mm cutter block should be OK???
Perhaps but as it's low powered maybe no point as you wouldn't be able to do a deep 50mm rebate in one pass.Might as well be two passes with the smaller block
 

baldkev

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Hi Kev its not a powerful machine its only a 1.5Hp motor on a 1” spindle, bit more power than my router though :)funny enough there’s a Kity 429 Spindle Moulder on the bay finishing tonight I thought was cheap at the moment.
40mm block.....

I have an axminster spindle moulder ( a rebadged jet ) which has an 3/4" spindle, a 1" and a spindle with 1/2" router collet.... i believe it 2hp, but I'd have to check.... pretty similar i bet.
The guy i bought it off had got 30mm and 1 1/4" adaptors for it, so i can use both sizes. i have one 30mm bore 40mm thick block and i just change cutters and limiters as required, but will get a rebate block and vari angle block in time.

You can make shaw guards using threaded bar, nuts and mild steel blocks ( 50 x 50 x 20 block is £5 on ebay ) and old handsaw blades can be cut to width, flexed and screwed into position for a basic shaw guard..... or 300mm steel rulers....
I will eventually get round to making a sprung roller assembly for mine. I'd love power feed but i dont use it enough to justify the outlay
 

Jacob

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That was an impressively thorough article from Trevanion!
He comments on the "danger zone" for flying bits. I had one cutter break because it was not tightened at all but it dug itself into the workpiece and shattered into several pieces, so no injuries.
OTOH the danger zone with a TS is in line with the blade itself and my mate Richard got a TC tip in the eye, in spite of doing everything safely, except perhaps not taking it to a saw doctor soon enough. Went to an opthalmic surgeon instead to have it taken out. Amazingly didn't lose his eyesight. If a tooth has broken off or if it is labouring to cut it is dangerous and could launch another tooth.
Whichever tool it is it seems that getting your hands too near is still the biggest risk but most easily avoided; two push sticks every time! I also keep out of target zone of a TS and never eye the moving blade straight on in line.
 
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