sorby/Tormek jigs vs wolverine/storme etc?

[nev]

I have come to the conclusion that the biggest hurdle i have in turning is getting a constantly and correctly shaped edge when sharpening. In light of this my next WS purchase will be a sharpening jig.
Not being made of money I am afraid the proedges and tormeks are outa my league but the bench grinder 'conversion' kits I could probably stretch to.
http://www.tormek.com/en/accessories/bgm100/index.php
http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Grindin ... l#SorbyJig

My main issue is with the spindle (generally too pointy) and bowl (uneven) gouges. I have an RP 6" grinder.

My choices seem to be between the Sorby 447 deluxe (plus a few minor jiggy bits) and the tormek kit (125 quid), or the likes of the wolverine/ storme/ trugrind/ dakota type jigs. (£less)

My question to the more experienced of you out there is this... does anyone have any experience of more than one of the above? moved from one type to another? swear by or avoid like the plague etc.

I am leaning towards the tormek but before i splash out, any reasons not too? :?

 

[Paul Hannaby]

The Sorby and Tormek fingernail jigs are pretty much the same thing but with a different means of attachment. I used to use the Sorby jig but have now moved on to the Tormek jigs because they can be used on both the bench grinder and wet grinders as I have both. The Tormek is also more versatile because you can buy any of their other jigs if you need them.
The proedge seems to be just a belt sander with a bracket to attach a jig. If I was going down that route, I'd probably buy a cheaper belt sander and make a bracket myself.

 

[CHJ]

My main issue is with the spindle (generally too pointy) and bowl (uneven) gouges. I have an RP 6" grinder.

Although a jig will help with repeatability the actual profile (pointy or otherwise) is still down to operator and the dwell time on any particular area of the cutting edge.

The Tormek Gouge Jig (also used by Sorby on the Pro Edge) is the most versatile I find, but it does not need the expenditure on all the support bits to fit it to your grinder.
I use one alongside my home made equivalent (both preset for my two regular gouges).

 

[jumps]

do not underestimate Chas's observation - you can get perfect and pointy gouges from the same settings on the 447 (for example)!

 

[Silverbirch]

Hi Nev,

I have been on an eternal quest to find the perfect sharpening system since I took up turning and, lacking first hand advice or instruction, have tried most of the kit you mention.
I could probably write a book, but to summarise:
I have used (and since sold on) the Sorby jig. It worked ok, but tended to foul the grinding wheel, damaging the soft aluminium of the jig.
I also have set up at present, the Tormek BGM 100 jig, on a Record 6" grinder. It too works OK, but I find sliding it along the bar and swinging the jig awkward and it`s at least as fiddly as the others to set up.
I also have, and like best, the Wolverine system. Not cheap,but built to last. The fingernail profiler is easy and accurate to set and works well. The only problem is, when your gouges wear down, they might not be able to project sufficiently to achieve the desired profile.
I`ve found that as I become more proficient, and having ground away my fair share of expensive steel, that the Wolverine platform, which is very sturdy and easy to adjust, serves most of my sharpening needs. I can now sharpen fingernail profiles, and other turning tools, reasonably well by resting my hand or the tool on the platform and moving it freehand. No need for lots of fiddly set up before use. It has taken a while for me to reach this stage and I wouldn`t try to suggest it`s as "accurate" as using a jig, but it`s a lot quicker and more versatile, and I think it has developed my sharpening skill. The Wolverine kit will sharpen most turning tools plus bench chisels, plane irons etc as a bonus. It would be my first choice.

Ian

 

[Jonzjob]

Apart from a very basic jig that I made from some plan a long while back

I progressed to a Wolverine kit and haven't looked back. As Ian has said it's easy to use and I have found it accurate.

But it does take some of the "I wonder how it will cut now I did sharpen it" out of the equasion :mrgreen:

 

[boysie39]

I have had most if not all of the grinding systems that can be bought .I have now settled for the Wolverine and have become kinda settled on it.
When I started out on this vortex I had a lathe and all the gear that goes with it and a set of 10 gouges the whole lot cost 60 euro. I had no grinder only a small bosch belt sander ,and to this day I swear that I could get better edges on me tools with it. I even made up a jig to Keith Rowely spec. and thought this is it. Then I discovered the dreaded Fingernail grind and all me troubles began, and to some extent would still exsist if I had'nt experimented with grinds and found some which suit me and I can replaciate on the Wolverine .
That to me is where the problems start trying to keep factory produced grinds that came on the tools when bought.
If you can repeat a cutting edge that you are happy with for doing what you want it too stick with it.
While I have been typing this post some company somewhere has probly manufactured a couple of new jigs that are going to MAKE your turning experience so easy .What a load of bull .

 

[cambournepete]

I think I've just about settled on using the tormek jigs on a bench grinder, for now anyway. I can usually get a repeatable grind I like and usually I'm gentle enough to not blue the steel.
I have two of the Tormek bowl gouge jigs, one set for a "traditional" grind and the other for an Ellsworth grind.
I might even get a third jig for spindle gouges as it's much quicker and easier to use a different jig that keep changing and trying to reset the settings of one jig.
Now about grind wheels...

 

[tudormaker]

Some of you more experienced and or professional members here will will probably laugh at my sharpening jig but.
The amount of steel removed is almost negligible.
There is no need to change wheels.
Three grades of grit and a wheel with honing paste.
The only parts bought were the metal rods and the bearings (about £10), even the belt was home made.
And I had fun making it.

Terry

 

[cambournepete]

Why anyone laugh?
That looks great - care to share construction details?

 

[boysie39]

Why anyone laugh?
That looks great - care to share construction details?

I agree with Pete please share wit us THE TUDOR GRIND System =D> =D>

 

[Jonzjob]

Well, I will buck the trend and say that it really is laughable! Laughably simple, laughably efficient and laughably cheap too!

Looks good to me Tudor :mrgreen:

 

[Silverbirch]

A neat solution, Tudormaker! Definitely worth some further publicity!
For anyone who hankers after a Sorby Proedge, there is a poor man`s version here and here which looks interesting. You need to look at the first video before the second one makes sense. There`s a fair bit of waffle at the beginning before he gets down to the niity gritty.

Ian

 

[nev]

Terry, How soon can you deliver :mrgreen:

Seriously though its always puzzled me why most sharpening systems don't have more that one grade of wheel attached* or extra wide multi grade wheels that go from fine at one end to really fine at the other :?
*I mean at one end, not one at each end

Thanks for the input guys =D> , looks like Ian's done all my testing for me and it looks like its the wolverine with vari-jig or Chas' cost saving tormek jig on a home made block are favourite . Hoping to get to my 'local' (30 mile round trip) tool shop in the next day or so to see if he's got the wolverine there alongside the tormek, and see if i can get a 'go' both, check out if my wrist action is more suited to one than the other :shock:

 

[Shay Vings]

I bought the Axminster Storme as it seemed to offer the best value: 2 bases included like Wolverine but no need to purchase second fingernail jig for gouges over 5/8, and no need to buy extra skew holder. Also, like Trugrind but includes 2 bases as standard. Quite a bit cheaper than Sorby 447 when you add in their fingernail jig.

Its engineering is OK, but nothing more and there are a few quirks especially on the fingernail holder. The locking screw turns the wrong way (unscrews to tighten) and will not hold small diameter gouges properly (they rotate because the groove in the holder is the wrong shape). Unless you have a long projection on the gouge, it is easy to foul the grinding wheel and take a chunk out of the holder. There are no calalibration marks either: you have to scribe your own.

Like I said, its OK - nothing more, but if you are on a tight budget, it will do the job.

 

[Robbo3]

Over the years I have used :

Tormek wet system

- disposed of because it was too slow to get out, fill with water, grind, then empty & put away. Why empty? Because water evaporates, adding to the moisture content of the air in the workshop & also the risk of freezing in winter.


Homemade platform & a homemade sliding v-arm. Used in conjunction with .....

Sorby 445 Fingernail Profiler

- excellent choice IMHO as the grinding angle is governed by how far the gouge protudes from the jig which is a fixed distance from the grinding wheel & therefore one less thing to get wrong. With the platform assembly (which I don't have) this would, again IMHO, make a versatile all round system.
One small problem on some grinds, the gouge holder would make contact with the motor body before the left hand side of the grind was completed, although I've not managed to grind away part of the jig as some people have mentioned.


Axminster Storme (similar to the Wolverine system).

- Having only just set up this system my first impressions are that it is solidly built. The sliding v-arm is too long (over 27") for it to be used in its normal place of rest so I now have to move it onto a workmate or the workbench before use.
There are no instuctions on how to set up a gouge for sharpening & no markings on the jig. The screw mechanism for holding the gouge works in the wrong direction, ie anti-clockwise to tighten & clockwise to loosen.
Setting the gouge protrusion to 2" & adjusting the sliding arm to achieve the same angle of the previous grind, I still had no idea what angle was required on the elbow joint of the jig, so I left it as it was, stuck a bit of masking tape on & marked a line opposite a nose which projects from the top half. This nose looked to be approx 90° to the body of the jig.
A dry run before starting the grinder, by pure luck, gave near enough the same grind as the Sorby jig on both a 3/8" & 1/2" spindle gouges.
I also tried a 1/4" bowl gouge on the same settings but it ground far too much off the wings. I also had to use a washer across the top of the flute of this small gouge to ensure that it sat level.

I feel that I am lucky to have had the experience of using the Sorby profile jig to gain the correct (for me) grinds which allows me to then set up the Storme profile jig. The novice reader won't have had that experience to fall back on & thus will be setting up the jig by trial & error.

The instructions for the Tormek Gouge jig explain clearly what each adjustment does & could be applied to jigs used by similar systems.

HTH

Robbo

 

[Albion]

I've just bought a Storme jig and as you mentioned, Robbo3, I have no idea what angle to set it for the different gouges.

Could anyone give me some idea what to set it to for spindle and bowl gouges? Cheers

 

[nev]

Have a look at these previous posts to give an idea of some angles and profiles...
cause-of-banding-on-insides-of-bowls-t45894.html?hilit=profiles
post648225.html?hilit=profiles#p648225
and also
http://www.hannaby.com/bowl-shaping.html
http://www.peterchild.co.uk/sitemap.htm#infolist has a lot of good info on all things turning related


hth

 

[Albion]

Thanks for the links Nev but I was actually looking for help with the angles for the spindle holder in the jig not the gouges themselves.
Sorry I wasn't clearer.

 

[nev]

I splashed out on the wolverine and have not seen the storme one but if its the same maybe the oneway videos may shine some light...
http://www.oneway.ca/index.php?option=c ... &Itemid=15
?