Sorby Patriot or RP SC4

[Lonsdale73]

Now that the RP SC4 has had a huge price hike and within a few pints of the Sorby Patriot, anyone out there with experience of one, other or both able to give some pointers as to which one to go for?

 

[Jacob]

I have the Sorby and have to say it seems excellent and very well designed and put together. Good engineering does seem to be their thing.
Can't compare with the Record not having had hands on, but they'd have to be very good to compete.

 

[Duncan A]

I use both chucks.
- The RS has greater jaw travel than the SC4. May be useful on occasion e.g. holding a square in the jaws for example.
- The SC4 can take a M33 insert whereas the RS can only be direct threaded M33 or use an excert (lots of overhang). Both have agood range of inserts for sizes below M33.
- They are both good but the SC4 has a nicer finish and is, I think, more accurately made although I'm not sure it makes much practical difference.
- I really don't think there's much difference in overall robustness.
- The jaws are compatible across both chucks but the tenon dimensions can alter slightly if putting RP jaws on RS chucks and vice versa.
- The jaw profiles vary slightly. I max and match and don't have a clear preference although I do think the SC4 jaws are better made and tend to be a bit heavier/sturdier than the RS jaws.
The RS manual is rubbish; the SC4 manual is very good.
If it matters to you, the RS cardboard packaging is far more eco-friendly than the plastic-boxed SC4.
Duncan

 

[Lonsdale73]

Appreciated chaps. Now I've just spotted the Axminster which again is around the same price point (SK100).

I did have an SC4 which was my first (and only) chuck so I haven't much to compare against but I did think there was a bit much play . I had (quite) a few incidents of the workpiece coming flyink out of the chuck but that might be as much down to my inexperience as anything else. The Sorby brand seems to just exude quality so I did wonder if that would be reflected in their chucks. I've watched a lot of the Colwin Way demos for Axminster's Woodworking Wisdom and of course he uses Axminster chucks exclusively. He does make everything look easy though.

 

[Duncan A]

Beware! The Axi chuck jaws will not fit the RS or RP chucks.
If you want to become even more confused, have a look at Versachuck wood lathe chuck. Fits most lathes. Accepts all leading jaws. I've never used the Versachuck but plenty on here use them and like them.

Regarding workpieces coming off the chuck - it's you, not the chuck! Plenty of stuff on t'interweb explaining correct chucking but main points are to size the tenon so that the gap between the jaw segments is about 3mm, shape the tenon to suit the jaw profile (dovetail or straight), ensure that the tenon does not bottom out on the chuck. All explained here:
Duncan

 

[Lonsdale73]

At the moment, I'm starting from scratch again. I will almost certainly get another RP lathe and had planned to buy the SC4 again but they have shot up so much in price that I did wonder if there might be a better alternative in the same price bracket. I don't have to worry about jaw compatability and the Axi does have some nice offerings on that front.

Whereabouts in Northants are you? An area I used to know really well.

 

[Duncan A]

Axi would be a safe bet I guess, but if you want to stay with the SC4/RS/Nova family, another option would be the much cheaper Charnwood Nexus3R:
95mm diameter, 4 Jaw Geared Scroll Chuck (charnwood.net)
Nexus3R Scroll Chuck Package (charnwood.net).
I've no idea what they're like but there may be someone on UKW that has experience of them. Charnwood jaws that I've bought in the past were truly dreadful, but they may have tightened up their QC these days.
I hadn't noticed the SC4 price increase - now very glad that I've got plenty of chucks already!
I'm in Northampton - now part of the brand new West Northamptonshire after the bankruptcy of Northants County Council! Oddly enough, I attend West Northants Woodturners club; so named many years ago but now particularly appropriate.
Duncan

 

[gregmcateer]

I've got 2 versa chucks and an old super nova. Much prefer the Versa. Not only reason, but the key turning righty tighty, rather than left to tighten jaws just seems more sensible.

 

[Lonsdale73]

Axi would be a safe bet I guess, but if you want to stay with the SC4/RS/Nova family, another option would be the much cheaper Charnwood Nexus3R:
95mm diameter, 4 Jaw Geared Scroll Chuck (charnwood.net)
Nexus3R Scroll Chuck Package (charnwood.net).
I've no idea what they're like but there may be someone on UKW that has experience of them. Charnwood jaws that I've bought in the past were truly dreadful, but they may have tightened up their QC these days.
I hadn't noticed the SC4 price increase - now very glad that I've got plenty of chucks already!
I'm in Northampton - now part of the brand new West Northamptonshire after the bankruptcy of Northants County Council! Oddly enough, I attend West Northants Woodturners club; so named many years ago but now particularly appropriate.
Duncan

Charnwood a byword for cheap and nasty and lacking the reputable customer service of Axi, RP or RS.

I lived in Moulton for a while, made a lot of use of Roadmenders which had no connection to woodturning nor even the mending of roads.

 

[Duncan A]

I agree with you on Charnwood but thought I'd mention them as an option.
By the way, Nova chucks now go righty tightly and there were some good deals around just recently - looked like they came out of the same factory as the SC4.
Roadmender was a great venue for all manner of acts but I never went there other than to pick up gear for people. Sadly missed!

 

[Lonsdale73]

I agree with you on Charnwood but thought I'd mention them as an option.
By the way, Nova chucks now go righty tightly and there were some good deals around just recently - looked like they came out of the same factory as the SC4.
Roadmender was a great venue for all manner of acts but I never went there other than to pick up gear for people. Sadly missed!

Among the many great bands I saw there over the years, I had the privelege of seeing Joe Strummer and his Latino Rockabilly War one steamy July night. I had black legs for days afterwards as all the dye came out of my brand new black Levi's. Of course, getting home late, in the dark and after a few beers I didn't actually notice that as I stripped off and climbed in to bed. I cannot tell you how happy the missus was with me after that.

Leaning towards the Axi. I see someone asked what difference size makes (I had wondered that when looking at the SC3/SC4). Question was posed on Axminster's site some time ago and no one has answered. My "I'd like to know that too" was deemed an unacceptable response that breached Axminsters rules and removed.

 

[Landiman]

Now that the RP SC4 has had a huge price hike and within a few pints of the Sorby Patriot, anyone out there with experience of one, other or both able to give some pointers as to which one to go for?

I started with a record. Lasted a year or so then the inner spiral broke. Upgraded to a sorby and never looked back. They do a great range of replacement jaws etc all well made.
Hope this helps.
Regards
John

 

[Nelly111s]

Colwin Way "works" for Axminster (at least has a business relationship), so I'd be surprised if he promoted anything else.
I have tried Charnwood, but the thread was too short for the headstock on my lathe, so it didn't go all the way down to the register. I use an SC4 - I can recommend it, but never tried a Patriot, so can't compare.
I have an Axminster 100mm chuck (older than an SK100) and it's OK, but I prefer the SC4 Allen key tightening.

 

[Richard_C]

No views on the choice, but you mentioned Record Power price rises.

I was vacillating between 2 lawnmowers, the local dealer (who really is a mower-fixer and far from a hard sell guy) mentioned last week that prices on the brand he stocked were going up by 15% from 1 Sept deliveries, he'd only just been told. That made my decision for me.... the one you have in stock please.

My wife's after a new flute, and I think Yamaha musical instruments go up on the same day, so I suspect 1 Sept or maybe 1 Oct is going to be price rise day for lots of things.

If budget is a factor, maybe checking who has stock and at what price might help your decision.

 

[Lonsdale73]

Decision made and opted for the Axi

 

[Lonsdale73]

And it's arrived! Initial impression was "That's a big box!" and when I went to pick it up (delivery guy has to place it inside an open doorway for his 'proof of delivery' photo) it was weightier than I expected it to be. The SC4 came in a plastic case, maybe a bit smaller than a lunchbox and the hinge snapped first time I opened it. It had a flimsy moulded insert which contained the chuck with all other parts concealed underneath. It wasn't big enough to accept the chuck with the supplied standard jaws attached and typical of these things, the remaining components seemed to have expanded on contact with air as they would no longer all fit under the moulded part. The Axi comes in a solid board case with corrugated inners to house/protect the component parts. It has a larger footprint than the SC4's 'vanity case' and I don't imagine it will last forever but at least when time comes to discard it then it is 100% recyclable. The legenday 'C' jaws look, to my eye and in all honesty, no different to the 2" jaws that came with the SC4. I never got on too well with the SC4's woodscrew chuck thingy, never seemed to find the right sized drill bit for a pilot hole, one size being far too tight next size up a bit sloppy (drilled on a press, not by hand) and wasn't always easy to get the chuck jaws to grip it securely. Of course, much of this could be down to my inexperience. The actual scew part on the Axi version looks much the same but instead of seeming to extend out of a hex nut, the axi is centred on a disc, machined to suit the aforementioned 'C' jaws. Obviously, not tried it out yet but it certainly looks capable of a much more secure hold. One thing in the SC4's favour was the chuck key which was a decent length and easy to use. The one supplied with the Axi looks stubby in comparison although they do have a longer version as an optional accessory! That said, it seems to work well enough and when turning the key, the movement is silky smooth. Can't say that about the SC4 which, from day one always felt a bit 'scratchy' and jerky. I'm sure those with more of an engineering bent than I'll ever have would highlight things with both models that I might never notice and until such times as I get it on a lathe and actually use it I can't draw any conclusions. But so far I'm impressed.

Stop press: Glad I bought it when I did, it's gone up £30 overnight.

 

[scooby]

Good choice, but I don't think you'd have been disappointed with the others.

I got a SK100 a while ago (previously had a SC3 and SuperNova 2 which are both very good). The main thing that made get the Axi was the jaw selection and the ability to leave the carriers on the jaws and just wind them out to change. The only thing I have against the SK100 is the chuck key, which is very small. Obviously intended as it makes the longer key a necessary purchase for certain jobs (button jaws, etc). Speaking of button jaws, one of the other reasons for buying the SK was for the wood plate jaws..those interested me a lot but they've been out of stock forever.

 

[Lonsdale73]

they've been out of stock forever.

Or have they? Cynic might think they've been holding back to wait for the price hike.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The main thing that made get the Axi was the jaw selection and the ability to leave the carriers on the jaws and just wind them out to change.

You could have got a Versachuck, which would have given you the option of Axi jaws or Versachuck jaws (which are cheaper).

 

[scooby]

I did briefly have a Versachuck but I encountered a few issues with it so returned it and bought the SK100. I live quite near an Axminster store so it was easier just to drive there and collect the chuck as opposed to waiting for the Versachuck to be returned, checked and a new one sent out.
Nothing against the Versachuck, it looked good quality (and very similar to the Axminster super precision). No doubt, I was just unfortunate.
I don't regret buying the SK100 though.