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Phil Pascoe

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Criminal waste of wonderful wood - it's another case of "I'll do it because I can - I have a decent income, the knowledge, the facilities and the machinery to do it, so therefore it must be good." They are ugly. Having said that, they sell...........so who's wrong?
 

marcros

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phil.p":1746t66s said:
Criminal waste of wonderful wood - it's another case of "I'll do it because I can - I have a decent income, the knowledge, the facilities and the machinery to do it, so therefore it must be good." They are ugly. Having said that, they sell...........so who's wrong?
yep, +1
 

whiskywill

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phil.p":2xtghv18 said:
Criminal waste of wonderful wood -
So making a musical instrument is a waste of wood?

What's the difference in showing some craftmanship and artistic skills and making it out of various coloured woods and making it out of just two or three different woods?
 

gus3049

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whiskywill":3pby7fom said:
phil.p":3pby7fom said:
Criminal waste of wonderful wood -
So making a musical instrument is a waste of wood?

What's the difference in showing some craftmanship and artistic skills and making it out of various coloured woods and making it out of just two or three different woods?
I think as with all things the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I've been making guitars for 40+ years now but I would hate to turn out something like that. It does reek of do it 'cos I can. I also suspect that the sound suffers hugely from the method of construction. The way the woods are put together has a huge effect on the quality of the instrument.

Guitars have one purpose and that is to make music. The sound is by far the most important thing closely followed by the playability. The looks are a matter of taste. I find these over fussy and 'bling' which is presumably why the people on the list of buyers go there.

As far as a waste of good wood is concerned, I do that every day, adding to the firewood pile when a turning doesn't quite go where I expected. However, I know what is meant by the expression and have a certain sympathy with that position.
 

MatthewRedStars

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Irrespective, the Acoustic Music Co in Brighton is a great shop... just need to win the lottery!
 

mrpercysnodgrass

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You sir are wrong. In fact you could not be more wrong if you tried, and yes I am going to tell you why you are so wrong.
Making anything out of wood is a real privilege, to make beautiful things out of wood is something we should all aspire to. The guitars made by Howard Klepper are not just beautiful but they show an immense skill and eye for detail, in the design, selection of timber and execution. Where would we be if Thomas Chippendale selected inferior satinwood for his Diana and minerva cabinet or left out the marquetry because it was wasteful. How much kindling did Ernest and Sidney Barnsley create by selecting only the best oak to make their cabinets from. If we are to make just functional objects with no regard to the aesthetics then we will all be living like the amish. I for one aspire to more than that. To see an object, be it utilitarian or otherwise made up to be the most skillful and pleasing to the eye and still retain its function is an inspiration. Howard Klepper has "a decent income, the knowledge, the facilities and the machinery" because he produces guitars that people want to buy, they are willing to pay large sums to own one because they are better than other guitars.
 

gus3049

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mrpercysnodgrass":34sz8pg4 said:
You sir are wrong. In fact you could not be more wrong if you tried, and yes I am going to tell you why you are so wrong.
Making anything out of wood is a real privilege, to make beautiful things out of wood is something we should all aspire to. The guitars made by Howard Klepper are not just beautiful but they show an immense skill and eye for detail, in the design, selection of timber and execution. Where would we be if Thomas Chippendale selected inferior satinwood for his Diana and minerva cabinet or left out the marquetry because it was wasteful. How much kindling did Ernest and Sidney Barnsley create by selecting only the best oak to make their cabinets from. If we are to make just functional objects with no regard to the aesthetics then we will all be living like the amish. I for one aspire to more than that. To see an object, be it utilitarian or otherwise made up to be the most skillful and pleasing to the eye and still retain its function is an inspiration. Howard Klepper has "a decent income, the knowledge, the facilities and the machinery" because he produces guitars that people want to buy, they are willing to pay large sums to own one because they are better than other guitars.
I think you may be talking to me but as you don't address it, I can only assume!!

I am not wrong but then neither are you. We have an opinion. I find his guitars gaudy and unattractive, you like them as is your privilege. In what way are Mr Kepler's guitars better than other guitars? Have you played all those available? Are you a professional musician?

I don't doubt that they are good but the fact that many people buy them does not make them so. There are too many cases of the 'more you pay the more its worth' out there to believe that for a moment.
 

MickCheese

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I am not keen on the look, the craftsmanship looks very impressive though. The attached MP3 sounds very nice but doesn't mean a lot in isolation.

There are some really lovely guitars in that shop. Must start saving.

Mick
 

Phil Pascoe

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Perfect roast beef and horseradish is sublime. So are strawberries and Cornish clotted cream. I do not wish to eat beef and cream any more than I



sorry, my keyboard is playing up!
 

Phil Pascoe

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Perfect roast beef and horseradish is sublime. So are strawberries and Cornish clotted cream. I do not wish to eat beef and cream any more than I wish to eat strawberries and horseradish. Some things work, some things don't. Guitars dovetailed down the middle don't. #-o
 

Setch

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Howard Klepper is an extremely able guitar maker, and also a very smart and witty designer. The dovetail guitar was a shot at the traditionalists who claim anything except a dovetailed neck joints is a cheap shortcut, but is far more than a visual gag.

I'm lost as to why people would condemn without having taken the time to investigate the builder a little more. Inverse snobbery maybe?
 

marcros

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Setch,

Whilst I dont know enough to question what you are saying, I am not commenting on the ability, wit or intelegance of the maker- it is clearly of the highest order of craftsmanship, and like or dislike a lot of skill has gone into the design. Similarly I do not like BMW's. Something about them that just does nothing for me. They are excellent cars and well designed.

I dont think that it is necessary to research the builder to decide whether something is pleasing to look at.
 

gus3049

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Setch":30zwcvt4 said:
Howard Klepper is an extremely able guitar maker, and also a very smart and witty designer. The dovetail guitar was a shot at the traditionalists who claim anything except a dovetailed neck joints is a cheap shortcut, but is far more than a visual gag.

I'm lost as to why people would condemn without having taken the time to investigate the builder a little more. Inverse snobbery maybe?
I for one, am not condemning him as far as his craftsmanship is concerned. It is clearly of a high order. I just hate the way the dovetail guitars look. This is an aesthetic judgement to which I am perfectly entitled as you are yours.

Quite why there is such defensiveness here when those of us that don't like them said it is the appearance that puts us off, I don't know.

I for one, do not use dovetail joints between neck and body but build the two together in the traditional manner. The dovetail is the later invention as far as I'm aware so why the 'traditionalists' should be aimed at I'm not sure.

Building them together makes for a far stronger and more homogenous structure and I am sure the instrument benefits in tone and volume.

Personal taste seems to raise the hackles these days to a ludicrous degree (I agree about BMWs, never have liked them - yes I've driven them - and will stick to Italian cars ta very much. So they might not be so boringly reliable but they are mostly rather pretty - to my eyes at least and have real character) 'Vive la difference' should apply in all things otherwise life would be a bit of a w.nkfest.
 

Setch

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I think it is necessary to research the builder before dismissing his entire body of work on the basis of one, deliberately provocative, design. Crass statements as 'a criminal waste of wonderful wood' have no place in an adult conversation, certainly not in reference to such immaculately crafted pieces of work.

Any perceived 'defensiveness' came after a number of openly 'offensive' posts like the one i mentioned above.
 

gus3049

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Setch":31dmyotm said:
I think it is necessary to research the builder before dismissing his entire body of work on the basis of one, deliberately provocative, design. Crass statements as 'a criminal waste of wonderful wood' have no place in an adult conversation, certainly not in reference to such immaculately crafted pieces of work.

Any perceived 'defensiveness' came after a number of openly 'offensive' posts like the one i mentioned above.
You are still at it. Nobody wrote off his entire body of work. All anybody said was that they don't like the dovetail guitars.

Its a good thing you weren't here when my wife saw them "kinell, they're ugly!" and she turned away in disgust :shock: "But" I said, "they are beautifully made". "But" she said, "they are not beautiful are they?"

Just a matter of opinion.
 

Setch

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You're entitled to your opinion about the aesthetics, that isn't what I objected to. What I found unhelpful and rude was the first response, and the subsequent poster who agreed with it. You were more considered in your response, but you still opted to have a dig at the assumed 'style over substance' stance of the builder by saying you thought the construction and wood choices would lead to the sound 'suffering hugely'.

Guitar builders have known for years that many customers hear with their eyes, I guess it works both ways!
 

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