Some Initial questions from a Newbie

[MattR]

Hi all, and apologies for a fairly long post.

First of all, just so you know where I am at, I am a complete Novice with woodworking tools and skills (apart from where these skills cross over into general diy). I didn't even get any basic education at school, as i was on the cusp of when things switched to DT, and all we did then was some technical drawing, and a bit of materials science.

All that aside, I sit at a desk all day on a PC, so I am looking to get into woodworking to learn new skills, and also to get a hobby that doesnt involve me spending more time on the Play Station / desktop.

I have a number of books, including Workbenches - christopher Schwarz and 'The Essential Woodworker' by Robert Wearing (as recommended in my other thread). But all the theory in the world won't help me to develop any real skills

Tools wise, I have the following (mostly from DIY projects, and so B&Q type quality);

JigSaw
Circular saw on mitring table
Drill

1 G Clap
2 Sash Clamps
1 faitfull #5 Bench Plane
2 Block Planes (B&Q)
Assorted knives, chisels, drivers and so on.

After all this preamble, I really have 2 questions, one of which folows the other.

At present, I am working either on an old Black and Decker Workmate, or a rickety old potting table. I have a space thats 26" by 90", currently occupied by the potting table. So my plan is to first remove that, and replace it with a workbench. given my skill level as descibed above, am I being too ambitious? (I can take my time with this, so long as I can learn / develop enough skills to make a useable bench by the end)

And if I am not being too ambitious, and this is something that I can have a go at, then what tools apart from those above should I be looking to acquire. (I have a limited budget per month for this, so if I need power tools, or expensive tools, then I'll need to save up for a few months, so where possible I may have to buy entry level / beginners type tools, and replace them later on, even though I accept thats not necessarily cost effective.)

And does a whole Work bench need to be Hardwood, or could I get away with making parts of it from softwood to reduce the material cost? (I am wary of teh material cost as I am expecting to make mistakes, some of which may mean I need additional wood to replace the ruined parts.)

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Perfectly appropriate first project a workbench. I suggest you don't go too mad with clever vices and the like, keep it basic, simple, solid and robust and it will help be the launching pad of many of your next projects.

Given your skill level I would suggest you make a simple frame using fairly chunky wood (3x3 or 4x2 but at least 2x2) and then think about the top. 4x2 type leg/frame dimensions will be strong and heavy enough to take anything you throw at it, including standing on it to reach the top shelf you're going to build a few projects after this One sensible way to provide a solution for the top is with plywood. it's very strong, very stable, very flat, can be cut to whatever size you need in a single piece without the need for joining and if you want a thicker top you can double or triple up. It can be edged with hardwood if you want it to look pretty and can be replaced later if you gouge/ding it too badly. Basically its very practical and utilitarian. I would suggest WBP meaning water and boil proof which you can get in up to 8x4' sheets and smaller sizes from the sheds. It'll be in the region of £60 per sheet.

You could use many other materials too...MDF (pref moisture resistant), simple tongue and groove softwood, glue up some 4x2, kitchen worktop etc...lots of choices depending on availability, budget, preference.

Allow a space for a simple work holding vice that bolts to the bench and if possible where it's situated allow it to have a temporary fixing to a wall as that will help keep it nice and stable.

That would be my starter for 10. Don't worry too much about the materials, you're going to make a ton of mistakes and its more important to begin the journey than get too hung up about the destination.

Oh and...we'll be needing pictures

 

[John15]

Hi Matt,

When buying hand tools, planes and chisels in particular, it may be better to buy second-hand made in UK than new ones made in China. Have a look on ebay - lots of us get our tools from there.

Good luck

John

 

[AndyT]

Like Bob said.

My first bench was a bit of kitchen worktop, on a frame made of softwood, which was just cut to length, overlapped and screwed and glued together at the corners - no 'proper' joints.

For holding work to cut or plane it, you don't have to buy a big heavy vice. I managed for years with two small "table vices" (ie the sort with a clamping screw so you can temporarily attach them where needed) and an F-clamp.

 

[custard]

I can take my time with this, so long as I can learn / develop enough skills to make a useable bench by the end

Bob Wearing, a well known woodworking teacher and writer from the 70's and 80's, once commented to the effect that he was puzzled why amateur woodworkers didn't do better work when they had all the time in the world. I've been both an amateur and a professional furniture maker and I understand his question. I suspect that the hobbyist is consumed by anxiety and just wants something to show as quickly as possible. But in woodworking even the apparently simplest of jobs has concealed traps, and the hobbyist in a hurry will blunder into them until often he just becomes exasperated and throws it all in.

So the best advice I can give you Matt is to write down your very wise words and pin them to the workshop wall.

TAKE...YOUR...TIME!

 

[Knot Competent]

I made my first workbench from taken-apart pallets. It wasn't pretty, but it was plenty strong enough, and it only cost me time, glue, and a couple of boxes of screws. It's still going strong!

 

[jw00d]

My workbench is made from old 2x4s scavenged from a skip and screwed together. It aint pretty but it's sturdy as anything!

Good luck with yours.

 

[JimF.]

Paul Sellers. He has a great series of YouTube videos showing step by step. It's how I did mine. I wish I'd done it ages ago.

And it's a good learning experience.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You won't get your first one right. You possibly won't get your second one right. Don't fret about it, get on with something.

 

[sunnybob]

Hi all, and apologies for a fairly long post.

First of all, just so you know where I am at, I am a complete Novice with woodworking tools and skills (apart from where these skills cross over into general diy). I didn't even get any basic education at school, as i was on the cusp of when things switched to DT, and all we did then was some technical drawing, and a bit of materials science.

All that aside, I sit at a desk all day on a PC, so I am looking to get into woodworking to learn new skills, and also to get a hobby that doesnt involve me spending more time on the Play Station / desktop.

I have a number of books, including Workbenches - christopher Schwarz and 'The Essential Woodworker' by Robert Wearing (as recommended in my other thread). But all the theory in the world won't help me to develop any real skills

Tools wise, I have the following (mostly from DIY projects, and so B&Q type quality);

JigSaw
Circular saw on mitring table
Drill

1 G Clap
2 Sash Clamps
1 faitfull #5 Bench Plane
2 Block Planes (B&Q)
Assorted knives, chisels, drivers and so on.

After all this preamble, I really have 2 questions, one of which folows the other.

At present, I am working either on an old Black and Decker Workmate, or a rickety old potting table. I have a space thats 26" by 90", currently occupied by the potting table. So my plan is to first remove that, and replace it with a workbench. given my skill level as descibed above, am I being too ambitious? (I can take my time with this, so long as I can learn / develop enough skills to make a useable bench by the end)

And if I am not being too ambitious, and this is something that I can have a go at, then what tools apart from those above should I be looking to acquire. (I have a limited budget per month for this, so if I need power tools, or expensive tools, then I'll need to save up for a few months, so where possible I may have to buy entry level / beginners type tools, and replace them later on, even though I accept thats not necessarily cost effective.)

And does a whole Work bench need to be Hardwood, or could I get away with making parts of it from softwood to reduce the material cost? (I am wary of teh material cost as I am expecting to make mistakes, some of which may mean I need additional wood to replace the ruined parts.)

Dont worry,and dont overthink the problem, thats my advice.

I once made a fantastic workbench from lengths of planed 3 x 2 inch, just glued and squashed together with rope (didnt have any clamps big enough) as my first workbench, fixed to the wall with large shelf brackets and a couple of 3 x 2's on the front corners. Not one joint in the whole thing. Incredibly strong, I finally only gave it away when moving abroad.
Dont get hung up thinking you have to make classy furniture from the off. I'm currently making a router table with drawers under. Its made of 12mm plywood, with two large drawers rescued from an old divan bed base, which has also supplied the timber to strengthen the ply. Believe me, it aint pretty and I'll never post a pic here boasting about it, but its cost me about 40 quid all in, including the melamine top, and given me confidence to make the next project to a (slightly) higher standard.

You must get either an electric sander, or an electric planer, both if the cost is right. The most soul destroying part of woodworking (to me) is spending hours just trying to get the wood straight and smooth.

 

[gmgmgm]

My workbench is a pile of 4x2ft 18mm MDF on top of a sturdy old table. It doesn't move (it's incredibly heavy), has no joints and took about 3 minutes to construct. Just ask your local wood supplier to cut a board (8x4) into quarters.

Having started in a similar position, I'd suggest skipping the workbench... try making a bench hook and a shooting board, then something you actually WANT to make.

I'd suggest buying a handsaw. You have everything else you need to make something.

Leave the workbench for later. Good luck!

 

[sunnybob]

some thing else considering youre new to bandsaws...
KEEP YOUR FINGERS AT LEAST 6" FROM THE BLADE AT ANY TIME!!!!!!!!!!

Bandsaws take no prisoners. Treat it with respectful fear, use push sticks a lot. With a small saw like you have, you should not have your fingers on the table when the blade is running.

 

[Fergal]

Another vote from me for a workbench, once you have a decent bench to work on, it makes it so much easier and more enjoyable to make other things. Trying to do anything other than very small projects on a workmate is an exercise in frustration as the whole thing just moves around all the time, especially when planing.

Mine is just scrap 4x2 from a skip with a double layer of 18mm MDF on top and a shelf underneath made out of plywood from a pallet. There's a big old Record vice on the front and a smaller one at the end. Both vices were from car boot sales. Total cost of the bench was about £20 (including vices).

If you have a limited budget, your local gumtree and freecycle are good sources of free and/or cheap materials, all the wood for my bench came from gumtree.

Cheers

Fergal

 

[MattR]

Just a quick question, being as I have no wood lying around, I need to acquire some. Fair enough, but then, if it is either old pallets, or some unfinished timber form a diy shed, is it still necessary to let it acclimatise for a few weeks in my garage before doing anything?

And having already tried to square off 4 faces from an old length of pine, I can see where sunnybob is coming from. I can't afford a planer yet, so for now I have to stay with the manual method. (But I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing to learn the manual skills before diving into modern technology.). If / when I come to get a planer, are there any brands to avoid, or things to look out for?

 

[sunnybob]

the only wood that needs to be left is freshly cut, and thats years before its ready. Dont fuss with it.
Pallet wood is ok, but theres a couple things to look out for. A lot of pallets have been used to transport poisonous chemicals, if theres any suspicious staining on the wood, walk on by.

Also, nowadays many pallets have been treated with pesticides, which can harm you with the dust.
Dont get completely put off by this warning, just be fussy what you get, and read this site first;
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to- ... e-for-use/
There are several other similar sites.
And dont forget you will have to remove all the nails and staples so you dont bust your plane blades.
there, thats a weeks worth of hobby straight off. Its worth remembering that the hobby isnt just about making stuff, Ive spent a 100 times more time on making my workshop good than I have actually making things. Its all the same hobby.

Every time I go to a woodyard, I ask them for any old scraps of hardwood, explaining its a hobby and I make small boxes and toys. I have bits of mahogany, walnut, oak, and several others, all for the price of a couple of drinks (a fiver usually does it, sometimes its free). Then you can cut and plane and make mountains of sawdust all day long. I've even managed to get a lazy susan and a small mahogany loose change box to be allowed inside the house!

If you really are short for cash, car boot sales are a must. There are many old tools and planes out there. I bought a 110 year old plane with a good blade for £20 a few weeks back, just had a bit of woodworm to cut out and replace. see the message here
ww.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/wooden-plane-info-please-t88680.html
It cuts a lot above my skill level.
Save birthday and xmas money for power tools though (g)

One final tip (warning) If you want to live a healthy life, you MUST get face masks. I kniow it sounds woosey, but sawdust has killed almost as many people as coal dust, and just as slowly and painfully. Get some masks to FFP3 standard at least. DONT get cheapo FFP1 or 2 stuff, the dust goes straight round the edges. I've only started woodworking as a retirement hobby last year, and its daunting how much stuff you will be told you will need, but if you dont wear a mask while making sawdust, you WILL be sorry later in life. Research COPD if you dont believe me.

Clean the work area regularly, wear your mask especially when youre sweeping, and when youre sawing or bending close to the wood dust, and xmas money should go on a dust collection system.

Its not all doom and gloom, have fun whatever youre doing.

 

[tomasg]

If you plan on squaring planks easily up you need a long reference surface
otherwise you will be chasing your tail
if youv'e done this on a dead flat surface first ...you will realize what im saying
that you could still chase your tail very easily
by taking one or two swipes with a plane in the wrong spots and throw it all off again.
with a flat surface ....
you can plane off a shaving so a thin line of light shines under a plank for making a " sprung joint ".
you can rock the piece to find a high spot or even get some crayons and rub the surface to reveal the high spots colored in

I work with reclaimed wood , use regular bandsaw blades
therefore i dont cut anything with my bandsaw until i plane all surfaces first
otherwise if i hit a hidden staple my blades toast .
makes the job much more sensible having the piece not rock about while cutting

regarding a buying a planer ....I thought you said you hadn't any wood .
dont bother with a benchtop screamer i have one and its absolutely dreadful .

I would look into getting a nice/square square if you dont have any already
and some kind of spirit level
this would be the cheapest way to assemble something longer from smaller bits
try and find something thats flat a piece of builders string would at least be a start
good luck

 

[HexusOdy]

18 months or so ago I was where you are and as suggested a workbench was one of my first projects, there are plenty of videos on Youtube to give you ideas. What I have found is.

My most used main tools in order are,

Drill and Driver - A good brushless drill and driver are essential. I use them more than anything not just in woodworking but general DIY. There are lots of Gumtree every day.

Mitre Saw - Every piece of wood you buy will probably need cutting to length, and you will often want to cut mitres. A decent mitre saw is a good place to start.

Band Saw - Most people will say table saw but a band saw is much more versatile. You can rip cut shortish lengths, cut curves and none straight lines, do tapers, cross cut, mitre, resaw. Like most machines in woodworking they haven't changed in 40 years. Buy a 2nd hand one. I have a SIP with 6" depth of cut that does everything I want and cost just over £100.

Clamps - Can't do much of anything without a good range of clamps. Not G clamps though. Get a decent range of sizes in quick clamps or F clamps.

I have a table saw, surface planer, thicknesser, all the hand tools you would expect but I think witht hose you can can get a good range of projects done.

 

[Tetsuaiga]

I'd try and just find an old dining table to use. I did it for a long time and didn't really encounter any issues as long as it's secured to its base well.

I like bandsaws over table saws as they're less accident prone, can cut straight, curved and do deep resaws.

Oh and i'd get a planer, actually the cheap benchtop ones can be pretty decent for small/medium size projects. Saying that I often go over my boards with a no7 handplane after to improve them a tiny bit.

 

[Fergal]

I've been doing this hobby for about 5 years now and would agree with most things mentioned previously, although I would say it's worth learning how to sharpen and use a hand plane especially if you'll be using recycled timber. There are plenty of videos on youtube on how to do this. Learning how to sharpen a plane first is probably more important than learning how to use it, as trying to learn with a blunt plane will get you nowhere. Planing machines are nice to have, but can be expensive, noisy and produce loads of shavings very quickly that you then have to deal with.

Fergal

 

[whiskywill]

I would suggest WBP meaning water and boil proof which you can get in up to 8x4' sheets and smaller sizes from the sheds. It'll be in the region of £60 per sheet.

I assume you are suggesting 18mm plywood but at £60 a sheet, what type? Wickes do an 8' x 4" x 18mm marine ply sheet for £50. Ordinary, exterior grade ply is around £30 a sheet.