So much for the self build revolution

[flanajb]

2 years ago Grant Schapps the then housing minister made lots of noise about self building ...

My Wife and I need to move closer to London for work, and want to self build rather than having to pay lots of cash for houses that if they were cars would have gone into the crusher years ago. But can we find a plot. A quick search on Rightmove reveals about 3-4 plots of land with planning permission for each county!

Most of them are either out of our price bracket, or are in such terrible locations nobody would want to live there anyway.

The more I think about it the more I think this Country is such a **** hole. I am convinced the UK housing market is full of corruption and back handers between large house builders, ministers,estate agents and planners.

 

[dj.]

Part of the problem is land prices, around my area the difference between buying a property & buying a plot of land to build a similar dwelling on is so small as not to be financially viable.

The major house builders will pay a fraction of the price per plot when compared to individual plots that come up on the market.
The big companies have the money & clout to buy large areas of land & hence drive down the price. I looked into this about 12 years ago & depending where you were in the country cooperatives were coming into existence of like minded folks who were getting together to bid for larger areas of land that once bought could be divided up.
Whilst the idea seemed a good one I could foresee a few pitfalls so didn`t go down this route, but it could be something worth looking into.


Regards.


dj.

 

[flanajb]

Part of the problem is land prices, around my area the difference between buying a property & buying a plot of land to build a similar dwelling on is so small as not to be financially viable.

The major house builders will pay a fraction of the price per plot when compared to individual plots that come up on the market.
The big companies have the money & clout to buy large areas of land & hence drive down the price. I looked into this about 12 years ago & depending where you were in the country cooperatives were coming into existence of like minded folks who were getting together to bid for larger areas of land that once bought could be divided up.
Whilst the idea seemed a good one I could foresee a few pitfalls so didn`t go down this route, but it could be something worth looking into.


Regards.


dj.

Agreed, but local authorities have the power to do a lot more. They should put quotas in place that states that for every 5 new builds one has to be a self build. I have thought about this in considerable detail and even think that a redemption clause on the property so you cannot build and sell to make a quick profit would be a possible option.

I hate having to pay a load of cash for either a new build house where I know the Developer is making a tidy profit, or for a 2nd hand house that is god awful and is only good for pulling down.

 

[RogerBoyle]

2 years ago Grant Schapps the then housing minister made lots of noise about self building ...

My Wife and I need to move closer to London for work, and want to self build rather than having to pay lots of cash for houses that if they were cars would have gone into the crusher years ago. But can we find a plot. A quick search on Rightmove reveals about 3-4 plots of land with planning permission for each county!

Most of them are either out of our price bracket, or are in such terrible locations nobody would want to live there anyway.

The more I think about it the more I think this Country is such a dung hole. I am convinced the UK housing market is full of corruption and back handers between large house builders, ministers,estate agents and planners.

Sorry but I cant help think that this country with all its faults is still a brilliant place to live

If you feel so strongly about it Perhaps you should leave this country to another country that is not such a dunghole :roll: :roll:

 

[RogerS]

.....

I hate having to pay a load of cash for either a new build house where I know the Developer is making a tidy profit, or for a 2nd hand house that is god awful and is only good for pulling down.

Jeepers....and I thought that I was a bit of a whinger :shock:

There are plenty of very good houses out there. And why shouldn't a developer make a profit? They are in business after all. If you don;t think companies should make any profit then stop buying all inessentials like tools and wood and stuff.

 

[flanajb]

.....

I hate having to pay a load of cash for either a new build house where I know the Developer is making a tidy profit, or for a 2nd hand house that is god awful and is only good for pulling down.

Jeepers....and I thought that I was a bit of a whinger :shock:

There are plenty of very good houses out there. And why shouldn't a developer make a profit? They are in business after all. If you don;t think companies should make any profit then stop buying all inessentials like tools and wood and stuff.

Trust me, I can whinge for England. I agree that a Developer has every right to make a profit, but I don't want a mainstream boring square box style house. I like uber contemporary properties and developers don't tend to build them.

Would just be nice to be able to buy a plot and build my own home, much like is standard in most of Europe and Aus I must add!

 

[lincs1963]

Move to 'most of Europe' or 'Aus' then. Simples!!

 

[flanajb]

Don't get me started on the problems in Europe or Aus!

 

[petermillard]

Would just be nice to be able to buy a plot and build my own home, much like is standard in most of Europe and Aus I must add!

Yes, but 'most of Europe and Aus' tends to have more land than people. There have been a few Grand Designs in and around London, where folks have carved out small plots of land but I can't recall a single one that wasn't frighteningly expensive - some involving the demolition of an existing property to make way for the new build - so I guess the question is, just how badly do you want that contemporary home?

 

[andersonec]

[/quote]I hate having to pay a load of cash for either a new build house where I know the Developer is making a tidy profit, or for a 2nd hand house that is god awful and is only good for pulling down.[/quote]


I notice that developers are now also calling them 'Second Hand' houses in their adverts, "Why live in a second hand house?" is how it goes, is that the same as a second hand car where the value goes down with age?
If it's only good for pulling down then buy it, pull it down and build on the plot, renovation is very cost effective and way to get something you need / want at a fraction of the cost of a new build, also old houses often sit on larger plots with a mature garden.
The price of a plot with planning already gained (who would buy a plot without it?) can often be more than a derelict property, add into that the cost of connecting to the utilities, landscaping etc. then a new plot starts to look less attractive and should be last on your list, these are now more often than not a portion of someones garden which is just big enough for a two bed house and no garden, remember also that you are trying to move closer to London.
Building plots on one website is the tip of the iceberg, you need to be in the area where you want to build, search all the estate agents for derelict properties, speak to the Council 'empty houses officer', find a small house with potential to extend etc. etc.
Planning permission already given to a plot counts for nothing if your uber modern grand design is not going to fit in with the surrounding area, you will have to re-apply with new drawings which will get thrown out then it's back to square one except now you own an expensive plot you can do nothing with.
Developers buy large swathes of land where they can build large numbers of houses, they do not buy single plots, house building on the Continent is not governed by major developers, most of the houses on the Continent are self builds, one popular company is Huff-Haus who will also come to the UK to build one for you.
Oh, and one reason for the lack of building plots could be there are sixty million (and counting) people now living on this little island, you can't put that down to government.

Andy

 

[No skills]

Well if their 'second hand' houses then mines an antique and worth a fortune, tidy

In the current edition of home building and renovating the editor postulates that out of every 100 people that want to build their own home one or less ( ) actually gets to do it.

 

[flanajb]

If it's only good for pulling down then buy it, pull it down and build on the plot, renovation is very cost effective and way to get something you need / want at a fraction of the cost of a new build, also old houses often sit on larger plots with a mature garden.
The price of a plot with planning already gained (who would buy a plot without it?) can often be more than a derelict property, add into that the cost of connecting to the utilities, landscaping etc. then a new plot starts to look less attractive and should be last on your list, these are now more often than not a portion of someones garden which is just big enough for a two bed house and no garden, remember also that you are trying to move closer to London.
Building plots on one website is the tip of the iceberg, you need to be in the area where you want to build, search all the estate agents for derelict properties, speak to the Council 'empty houses officer', find a small house with potential to extend etc. etc.
Planning permission already given to a plot counts for nothing if your uber modern grand design is not going to fit in with the surrounding area, you will have to re-apply with new drawings which will get thrown out then it's back to square one except now you own an expensive plot you can do nothing with.
Developers buy large swathes of land where they can build large numbers of houses, they do not buy single plots, house building on the Continent is not governed by major developers, most of the houses on the Continent are self builds, one popular company is Huff-Haus who will also come to the UK to build one for you.
Oh, and one reason for the lack of building plots could be there are sixty million (and counting) people now living on this little island, you can't put that down to government.

Andy

Some interesting points here Andy

1. Do houses depreciate in price with age. I don't think so. I see some awful 1960s / 1970 designs that are priced so that pulling down and spending 200k on a rebuild would mean you are out of pocket one you had your new house on the 1970s estate valued.

2. I agree with finding a smaller property and extending it.

3. Let's be honest here. As furniture designers and makers I think most would agree that a bespoke designed property looks much nicer than a boring square box estate house. Where I live, the local planners have zero creativity and let developers build the most boring estates that stink of 1970s. Will people look back in years to come and think "they look nice"? I doubt it very much

4. The Government are partially responsible as I think it is about time that the settlement boundaries were expanded to enable more land to be released.

5. I am very cynical and believe that those in power purposely keep the supply of land down so as to keep property prices inflated. Most ministers are probably multi home owners, and also the government makes more in stamp duty with high house prices.

ps - I love Huff-Haus designs. Very nice indeed

 

[MickCheese]

Is it lo that you are looking for a plot close to London? I work in London and live relatively close. There is a small 2 bed bungalow across the road from me. It has already had another house built in its garden and the asking price is £400,000.

For that money I could move to other parts of the country and buy a small castle. So some of this is just supply and demand.

The drive by the government is more affordable housing not more pretty housing!

Mick

 

[Jacob]

Basically house prices are too high and this knocks on to land prices.
It's about surplus wealth - it has to go somewhere so it'll be art and antiques, gold, tax havens etc but for most of us we've redirected it into property.
My first bought house was £3000 (1973) which only a few years earlier had been sold for £500. It's probably worth £200,000 now but nothing much has happened to increase its value x 400. My improvements added a bit (but not a lot!).
Bringing down house prices would quite easy but politically difficult. Capital gains tax, inheritance tax, empty property rates multiplier, easy peasy!
Personally I think its a disaster and just having a roof over ones head has become the major preoccupation for many people, when they could be spending their money, time and energy elsewhere.
It's dominated a whole generation. Imagine if house prices had stayed at say 1980 value - we would all be much freer. Except those inheriting property at inflated prices (which includes me I have to say - good for me but not in the interests of the nation or the economy!)

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Jacob + 1. I've read that it is in the bank's, and therefore the country's interest to maintain the the high price of property : this is because most existing lending has property as collateral. They also expect a crash in future property prices, which causes of the lack of lending - they cannot afford to have £billions of unsupported debt. The high price of housing causes stagnation in the rest of the economy too - many people spend virtually all there income on it, leaving little for anything else.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My mother pointed out a house to me one day that my grandfather refused to buy in 1952, because it had a "belly" in the end wall". It's still there, belly and all. The price - £90.

 

[JakeS]

Oh, and one reason for the lack of building plots could be there are sixty million (and counting) people now living on this little island, you can't put that down to government.

Sure we can. If they did a really terrible job, we'd all leave. ;-)

 

[Phil Pascoe]

They're trying their best! (at doing a really terrible job)

 

[wobblycogs]

The way I see it house and land prices are a complex problem with many interacting causes. I certainly think there is a strong argument for freeing up more land for self building but we've got ourselves into such a mess with house prices that any non-trivial increase in building land could easily cause a catastrophic collapse in house prices which would then take out the banks. Within a few years of freeing up land there would be enough houses to go round with a few spare and suddenly all those massive mortgages people have taken out to buy a house the size of a shoe box (which are oddly enough also built like one) would be living with negative equity. The only way I can see out of this is to try and hold house prices static while inflation works it's magic, that's going to cripple economic growth though and cause untold amounts of misery as people try to afford stupidly priced houses.

The sad thing is that it's not hard to build a house that will last 200+ years (I'm sitting in one now) but instead we are building houses designed to last 50 years. I believe that more self building would result in a housing stock that better met the desires of the populace and stopped this ridiculous tear it down and re-build culture that is emerging - it costs a fortune to keep replacing our housing stock all the time both in terms of money and the environment.

FWIW, I wanted to build a place but even a cursory look at it was enough for me to see that you have to have a special kind of dedication or huge wealth to successfully self build anything other than the typical brick box in the UK.

 

[Jacob]

......any non-trivial increase in building land could easily cause a catastrophic collapse in house prices which would then take out the banks. .........

Sooner the better. Take out the banks instead of having them take out our whole economy. Who needs them?