So many options - no idea what to do - Part 1

[DiscoStu]

I've seen one previous post on this subject but there wasn't much in the way of thoughts on it.

I'm starting out on my wood working hobby, by that I mean I've done lots of DIY and have plenty of hand held power tools, but I am looking to create a workshop for creating furniture and projects that are more craftsman like rather than let's just knock this up.

I am limited to space in a single garage. It's a big single garage but it does have lots of other stuff in it.

So my first question is:

Should I go for a table saw such as the Axminster TS250 with side extension and sliding table or should I go for the Festool MFT3 with TS55R?

Before anyone says it, I'm not looking to go for second hand etc. I would like nice shiny new things with warranty and peace of mind.

With regards to use I will be doing all sorts of things from building furniture to cutting sheet materials.

So for those of you that have either of these what would you do? I am a little concerned that the MFT won't give me the repeatability as easily as a table saw and if I am making 8 chairs all with 6 slats then that could be frustrating?

Thanks in advance

 

[carlb40]

If you go the full mft route there will be worry about repeatability. Have a look on youtube for halfinchshy, he goes through setting up and the use of many options all of which are repeatable.

I have the axi ts200 and the festool ts55 and the ts55 will hopefully replace the ts200 completely.

 

[pcb1962]

The TS55 can replace the table saw for a lot of jobs, but not all.
It's fabulous for breaking down large sheets but not so good for crosscutting narrow pieces or for ripping anything that's less wide than the rail.
This morning I've been ripping 2x2 to 2x1 on my table saw, I can't think how you'd do that conveniently with the TS55.

 

[MickCheese]

I have the Kity equivalent of the Axi TS200. I have a little more space than you and find the sliding rails and side extensions are often in the way and I have lost count of the times I have bruised my hips knocking into them.

I also have the Makita rail saw.

I find I use them both for different things, sheet cutting the Makita wins every time but try tapering a table leg on it and it's clear why I also have a table saw.

Have you considered a rail saw and a decent band saw?

The band saw takes up a lot less floor space and if on casters can easily be wheeled out of the way when not in use.

I like my table saw and I like my rail saw........fight.

Mick

 

[DiscoStu]

Thanks guys, great to hear some of these thoughts and particularly from you guys that have one or other or both. I am also intending to get a bandsaw as the same time, so I am guessing that would cover off a lot of the issues with small stock.

So maybe a TS55 and MFT and a Bandsaw is a good option. I could at least then fold up with MFT and pack it away which will save valuable space.

Definitely some food for thought. So if I were to go this route, is there anything else I'd be missing out on by not have a table saw? I am also intending to have a router table, and will hope that most of my mortising will actually end up being dominos, so probably not too much tenoning to do and what there is could be done on either the router or bandsaw.

 

[DiscoStu]

I posted another question regarding routers and one of the suggestions that I got back was to email Peter Parfitt as he had both of the options I was looking at. Whilst I was emailing him I asked him about the Festool MFT with TS55 vs a table saw.

The reply I got is here:

i Stuart,

I am delighted to try and help...

I would find it difficult to choose between the Festool CMS-OF and the UJK Cast Iron router table. The CMS is easy to move around the workshop, has superb dust collection (I have the CT26 extractor) and is easy to use. Plus the router can be removed quite quickly when required.

The Cast Iron topped UJK table needs good quality castors (with brakes) in the small workshop. Whatever router you put in there is there for good. I have not tried any other tops other than cast iron so cannot comment on those. You really do need the router lift with this setup and the dust collection is okay but not brilliant. If you workshop might suffer from humidity or damp then cast iron might not be a good idea.

The OF1400 is a lovely router and although it coulkd be adapted to fit in the UJK table - who wants to have one of the best routers in the world stuck in a router table? The Dewalt 625 would be the router of choice for the UJK table.

I got rid of my big heavy table saw completely thinking that I could manage with the MFT3 and rails. After a while I bought a cheap and cheerful (Jet I think) table saw from Axminster which I would not recommend. In the end, because I wanted to do rebate work on the table saw, I went for the CMS-TS. I am lucky enough to have two sets of legs and so one has the CMS-OF and the other the CMS-TS in all of the time.

I find the TS55R with guide rails is perfect for breaking down sheet goods but the MFT3 was not big enough to handle a whole sheet. So I made a pair of folding trestles with sacrificial inserts and sacrificial cross pieces when required.

I have used my MFT3 a great deel and it is very easy, even with a small car, to get it to a job site (and a DIY guy will have job sites - son's house, dad's flat or whatever). If you cannot manage the MFT3 straight away then try a pair of Vertias Parf Dogs from Axminster with the associated bench dogs. Then all you need for an accurate saw station is a piece of MDF on top of you trestles with some accurately placed 20mm holes.

I find a small bandsaw if invaluable as you can re-saw large bits of wood and do curved work. It can take the place of most of the functions of a table saw that are not covered by the TS55 and rails.

A single garage was my first workshop (actually a spare bedroom was the very first) and there are a number of key things to remember...

Security of your tools. For a garaged that can be accessed from a house put sliding bolts on each side of the door on the inside near the top.

Heating - essential in the winter.

Power - at least three 13amo sockets that can take the full load simultaneously.

Mobility - put castors on all the large items.

Peter

I'm still not sure what to do about the table saw. I can see that doing repeat work on a table saw will be quicker than on an MFT. The MFT packs away nice and small and won't get in the way, but I am not convinced it will be as useful as a table saw. I will be getting a bandsaw which can take on some of the work that the MFT option can't do - or do easily.

I think i might try and cut some cardboard out to the size of the TS200 or TS250 with side extensions and slides and see what it looks like in the space I have.

 

[pcb1962]

I think i might try and cut some cardboard out to the size of the TS200 or TS250 with side extensions and slides and see what it looks like in the space I have.

If you make yourself a decent crosscut sled there are plenty of jobs that can be done quickly and conveniiently on the table saw without the use of extensions and slides or even a fence. Dados and rabbets are a piece of cake with a couple of stop blocks on the sled and crosscutting of short or narrow pieces is far more convenient than with the TS55. Don't assume that the table saw is no use without the extensions.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

My first table saw was the TS200 with the sliding table and I would seriously avoid the sliding mechanism. Its a load of complete rubbish. You're far better off making yourself an accurate sledge that will ride in the mitre slots and which when used can be stored flat against a wall or under a bench. All the sliding table does is get in the way of everything and its hopelessly inaccurate in any event. You need to bear one universal truth in mind. When you buy inexpensive machine tools, they are built to a budget and they're just not generally that accurate. Not without a lot of fettling and/or user modification anyway. The TS200 also had a table extension of pressed steel to the right of the main table. Mine was domed beyond belief. Axy sent me a replacement which was also domed. They checked the ones they had in stock....St Pauls Cathedral! I don't know if they've fixed this now as this was 5 years ago.

I'm really trying to have you avoid the same mistake I made. I think the combo of bandsaw and Festool kit is a pretty good one. You'll have no accuracy problems with Festool and in my view a bandsaw is easily the most useful and versatile saw ever invented. It's a fabulous tool when carefully setup.

HTH

 

[petermillard]

I have the Festool TS55 & MFT combo, as well as the Axi TS200 table saw; I use the TS55 & MFT for 99% of my cutting. You can make narrow rips with the TS55, but it is faster with a table saw; then again, the cut edge from the Festool is infinitely better than those from my TS200 (using the stock blade in each) and dust collection on the TS200 is poor, at best.

With the benefit of hindsight, I think a small bandsaw would have suited me better than a small table saw, and I may add one into the mix soon.

HTH Pete

 

[Stu_2]

Same here, with regard to most of my cuts being made using the TS55, and thinking about replacing my table saw with a band saw, at some point.

I now use the full Festool parallel guide system, too, which is excellent. There are 2 parts to it, which you can see here and here. There’s a pretty good video demonstrating its use on YouTube, here.

I’ve got a pretty decent Bosch GTS 10 table saw which hasn’t seen much action since I’ve had the TS55, and I’m very seriously thinking of replacing this with a band saw in the future. I can’t have both due to lack of space), but I haven’t quite got the bottle (or cash) to make the jump just yet.

Hope that helps.

Cheers
Stu

 

[Rhossydd]

All the sliding table does is get in the way of everything and its hopelessly inaccurate in any event.

Whilst I'd agree the sliding table can take up a lot of room in a workshop, 'hopelessly inaccurate' is unfair. The accuracy will be primarily down to how well you fit it and any remaining play in the table can be easily taken out with some subtle and relatively simple fettling. Making an accurate sled is probably a harder task and will reduce the maximum cutting depth of the saw by a significant amount on a saw with such a small diameter blade.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I fully accept a degree of bias on my part re this saw. I absolutely hated mine. It just reeked of cheap, badly made rubbish on every level and I lost the plot with it after the third replacement side table was domed to more than 2mm higher than the level of the main table. It stalled in relatively thin oak, the fettling of the sliding table took forever, the hold downclamp pushed the stock out of alignment. I went through a threshold of annoyance with it that consigned it in my mind to the "toy" category and I've never been able to be objective since then. So apologies to all those folks who seem to get on with it. I'm sure it cant be all that bad. Axy were really kind and helpful while I struggled with out of true parts etc but in the end it had to go. Perhaps mine was a Friday afternoon machine?? Don't get me started on the fence by the way!! Final tip...don't put a level to the cast iron table, you'll just get depressed.

 

[carlb40]

I fully accept a degree of bias on my part re this saw. I absolutely hated mine. It just reeked of cheap, badly made rubbish on every level and I lost the plot with it after the third replacement side table was domed to more than 2mm higher than the level of the main table. It stalled in relatively thin oak, the fettling of the sliding table took forever, the hold downclamp pushed the stock out of alignment. I went through a threshold of annoyance with it that consigned it in my mind to the "toy" category and I've never been able to be objective since then. So apologies to all those folks who seem to get on with it. I'm sure it cant be all that bad. Axy were really kind and helpful while I struggled with out of true parts etc but in the end it had to go. Perhaps mine was a Friday afternoon machine?? Don't get me started on the fence by the way!! Final tip...don't put a level to the cast iron table, you'll just get depressed.

It does sound like you had a lemon. Mine cuts oak/ maple/ purple heart easily enough, probably not as fast as a higher powered saw but it has never stalled. I can't comment on the sliding table as i don't have the room for it. If the other saws are like mine, then the tops are flat. What throws them out is the poorly welded base as i found out when i dismantled mine. Top off and on the bench nice and flat, on the cabinet/motor housing wayyyyyy out. I got around it by using washers to pack it level between the base and under side of the top. It wouldn't take much for the actual base to be welded square etc. :roll:

 

[DiscoStu]

Thanks for all the replies, I'm not sure it's made me any clearer but good to hear what you all have to say. In my mind I am thinking that a TS is an essential, but from reading what people have said here a TS55 with MFT and a bandsaw might be everything I could ever need. I was intending on getting a bandsaw as well, so maybe the MFT is the way to go.

I don't mind spending the extra cash but I just don't want to get it wrong. The mat will save space also which will be a bonus.

 

[Rhossydd]

In my mind I am thinking that a TS is an essential,

Do you have a firm idea of what tasks you will need a TS for ?
If space is limited a TS can end up dominating the working area or you have to mount it on castors and move it around a lot which in turn makes things like dust extraction a pain. Also bare in mind that small table saws really aren't a good option when dealing with large sheet materials. Fine if you have a large workshop with space around, but in a single garage ? not so much use. The track saw will be far more space efficient.

but from reading what people have said here a TS55 with MFT and a bandsaw might be everything I could ever need. I was intending on getting a bandsaw as well,

That sounds a far better solution for now and then see how often (if ever?) a table saw would have made life much easier with the projects you're actually making.

You may find, as I did, that once you get involved with working with hardwoods the ability to buy and convert rough planked timber is more important overall. Unless you're one of the hair shirt brigade who will only use hand tools, which it sounds like you're not, that approach means using a bandsaw+planer/thicknesser+chip extractor. If space is a premium that table saw will really get in the way then.

 

[DiscoStu]

Thanks - I think that is looking like the most likely route. Now reading up on which planner / thicknesser to go for.