Smoking Startrite table saw

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Distinterior

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The time taken to cut through that small piece of timber is excessive , My opinion the fault is blade related
The motor did not slow down when cutting , Also the motor looks more modern than the saw

The motor does appear to be the same as the original motor fitted to this model of Startrite saw......My guess is, it was refurbished at some point in its life and painted in the blue colour....Originally, it would have been green, in a similar colour to the saw itself....
 

BorisTheBlade

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Managed to fix the start stop switch and get the bed off after a battle to remove some imperial hex bolts somewhere between a 5 and 6mm... Gotta love 'em

Took off the blade and ran the motor for a good 5 mins or so as advised and no smoke. The belts were hot (probably not surprising) but then on closer inspection it looks like they have been rubbing. I took a recording (wearing a mask, body armour, three push sticks, gloves, hard hat etc as advised) and can hear a little noise which could be the rubbing or possibly something else? Didn't get a chance to get any further before I had to call it a night. Any thoughts? Not sure how I would go about repositioning stuff or whether it's a case of the pulleys being too small to accommodate?













never put your hand behind the blade to get something even with a guard! Use the push stick to push it on to outfield table or the floor.

Pete

I totally agree I should have pushed through the stick rather than reaching over ... Two push sticks is similar to those who preach 10 and 2 driving with feeding the wheel for safety that actually causes the driver to have less control of the car and more likely to cause an accident. Pro drivers don't feed the wheel for the same reason most of the professional woodworkers I watch don't use two push sticks. If you don't feel comfortable using a table saw with your hand in relative proximity to the blade, you shouldn't be using it at all. What use is the added distance from the blade when you have a piece of wood lodged in your skull as a result of losing control of the workpiece?

We're all adults and I have read and taken in all comments so and appreciate the kind sentiment behind them, but at the end of the day we need to adopt the practice that bests suits us after weighing up the risk.
 

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BorisTheBlade

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The motor does appear to be the same as the original motor fitted to this model of Startrite saw......My guess is, it was refurbished at some point in its life and painted in the blue colour....Originally, it would have been green, in a similar colour to the saw itself....

The motor badge looked original, very old. Can't remember the exact name but B C, I want to say Crompton? 1.5hp, looks similar to others I have seen of this era anyway.
 

Ttrees

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Can you twist the belts 90 degrees with your fingers?,
no expert whatsoever, but l believe that is a rule of thumb for how tight they should be?
 

Distinterior

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That lower pulley looks like its jammed up with sawdust!
Without the blade on, it's not whining like it was in your original video but it definitely sounds like there is bearing noise.
I'd be more inclined to think it's the upper bearings on the blade arbor rather than the motor bearings.

Brook Crompton motors were the original fitment on these saws...

20200420_142333(0).jpg
20200420_142209.jpg
 

BorisTheBlade

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That lower pulley looks like its jammed up with sawdust!
Without the blade on, it's not whining like it was in your original video but it definitely sounds like there is bearing noise.
I'd be more inclined to think it's the upper bearings on the blade arbor rather than the motor bearings.

Brook Crompton motors were the original fitment on these saws...

View attachment 130699 View attachment 130700
That looks very similar. The belts shouldn't be touching the bolt in between that connects the tilt mechanism shown in the picture should it? How would I go about loosening/tightening/aligning the belts?
 

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baldkev

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Now the blade is off, does the blade look flat? It could have overheated at some point and warped a bit, making more noise.
I'd strip off the covers, take the belt off and replace ( once its done, its done ) and give that sucker a proper clean out while the belt is off
 

Distinterior

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That looks very similar. The belts shouldn't be touching the bolt in between that connects the tilt mechanism shown in the picture should it? How would I go about loosening/tightening/aligning the belts?

The adjustment mechanism on the TA 145 and the TA 165 saws is the same but the TA 175 and TA 275 is different.
It depends on which model you have....Looking at the fence on your saw, I think yours may be a TA165, in which case you will need to just slacken the Allen headed bolts that locate the motor to the mounting plate and rotate it until the belt clears the bolt in your picture.
The motor is mounted by means of a round plate that is offset. By rotating the motor mount, you should find the motor pulley will, in effect, move sideways and allow the clearance you need.

Here is a couple of pictures
20200806_112241.jpg
20200806_112232.jpg
of the motor with the mounting plate attached.....You can clearly see the offset of the plate.

The bolts to slacken are the 3 x Allen headed bolts shown in this picture above......Just slacken them, dont remove them completely and you should be able to rotate the mount.
 
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BorisTheBlade

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The adjustment mechanism on the TA 145 and the TA 165 saws is the same but the TA 175 and TA 275 is different.
It depends on which model you have....Looking at the fence on your saw, I think yours may be a TA165, in which case you will need to just slacken the bolts that locate the motor to the mounting plate and rotate it until the belt clears the bolt in your picture.
The motor is mounted by means of a round plate that is offset. By rotating the motor mount, you should find the motor pulley will, in effect, move sideways and allow the clearance you need.

Here is a couple of pictures View attachment 130715 View attachment 130716 of the motor with the mounting plate attached.....You can clearly see the offset of the plate.

The bolts to slacken are the 3 x Allen headed bolts shown in this picture above......Just slacken them, dont remove them completely and you should be able to rotate the mount.
Are they imperial or metric? I had to chop a channel into two bolts holding down the table to get them off on the back end whereas the front was held down by standard hex head bolts which I found odd. All the sockets, spanners, hex etc in the world but they were larger than a 5mm and smaller than 6.
 

Distinterior

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Are they imperial or metric? I had to chop a channel into two bolts holding down the table to get them off on the back end whereas the front was held down by standard hex head bolts which I found odd. All the sockets, spanners, hex etc in the world but they were larger than a 5mm and smaller than 6.

Depending on the age of your saw, it's highly likely the bolt heads, thread sizes and Allen bolt heads are all Imperial sizes.
If you haven't got any Imperial sized sockets, spanners or Allen keys, I would suggest you buy some before attempting to dismantle or adjust anything further on the saw.....otherwise, you will only end up ruining the bolts etc and you will end up causing yourself even more grief than you've currently got.

It's part of the "joy" of owning an older machine...!😁

EDIT. The 3 HEX bolts you can see in my picture above that mount the motor to the offset plate ARE DEFINITELY metric though......The reason being, the motor was not made by Startrite and that motor that was made by Brook Crompton, had Metric sized bolts & threads...
 
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BorisTheBlade

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Depending on the age of your saw, it's highly likely the bolt heads, thread sizes and Allen bolt heads are all Imperial sizes.
If you haven't got any Imperial sized sockets, spanners or Allen keys, I would suggest you buy some before attempting to dismantle or adjust anything further on the saw.....otherwise, you will only end up ruining the bolts etc and you will end up causing yourself even more grief than you've currently got.

It's part of the "joy" of owning an older machine...!😁

EDIT. The 3 HEX bolts you can see in my picture above that mount the motor to the offset plate ARE DEFINITELY metric though......The reason being, the motor was not made by Startrite and that motor that was made by Brook Crompton, had Metric sized bolts & threads...
Thanks for the helpful advice, I assumed it was possibly a bodge the owner had done seeing as the motor was sprayed and they didn't match the other bolts. Good to know, will purchase some imperial Allen keys, have loads of imperial sockets so no way there. It's funny as when I bought the full Halfords advanced set a few years back I was a bit underwhelmed to see imperial stuff 😂
 

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That bolt looks very close to the belts. As you said its different to the others and I was just wondering if there used to be an idler Pulley/bearing? or perhaps its in the wrong way round.
 
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Distinterior

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That bolt looks very close to the belts. As you said its different to the others and I was just wondering if there used to be an idler Pulley/bearing?

That " Bolt" is actually the back side of the rise & fall pivot mechanism. You can just see the little circlip fitted on the end of the pivoting shaft in my picture......There is no idler pulley fitted on these type of Startrite saws.
 

BorisTheBlade

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That " Bolt" is actually the back side of the rise & fall pivot mechanism. You can just see the little circlip fitted on the end of the pivoting shaft in my picture......There is no idler pulley fitted on these type of Startrite saws.

I'm new to vintage saw repair/maintenance so you will have to bear with my lack of correct terminology. I mean, there is a bolt where I mentioned so you got what I was trying to say 🙃

I've been advised to adjust via the motor attachment, I'm thinking to take the moving parts off completely to dunk all the bolts, rods, bearings that are rusty and give them a scrub. Some say lithium grease and others wax as it would gather less dust. I have white lithium grease, 3 in 1 lubricant and briwax. What would you suggest?
 

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Ah I see it now. The bottom pulley looks like its aligned judging by the flush fit and key. Is the top pulley the same distance from the steel plate that the motor bolts to. It looks like its adjustable.
 

Alasdair

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As far as lubricating bolts etc I have been using comma copper ease grease just enough to cover and lubricate the threads. I find it tends to dry out eventually but stops bolts from seizing.
 

Distinterior

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I'm new to vintage saw repair/maintenance so you will have to bear with my lack of correct terminology. I mean, there is a bolt where I mentioned so you got what I was trying to say 🙃

I've been advised to adjust via the motor attachment, I'm thinking to take the moving parts off completely to dunk all the bolts, rods, bearings that are rusty and give them a scrub. Some say lithium grease and others wax as it would gather less dust. I have white lithium grease, 3 in 1 lubricant and briwax. What would you suggest?

How far you want to strip it down is entirely up to you Boris, but a good clean up to remove all the sawdust would be the first place to start.

As I said, the " Bolt" you keep referring to is actually a welded boss that is part of the U shaped motor mount. There is a pivot shaft in the centre of that boss than in turn is held in position by the small circlip.

When you've managed to clean up all the sawdust, you should see that yours will look like my pictures.👍

Regarding lubrication,....I try and avoid grease or oil of any kind when I refurbish these old saws as it will only attract the dust and will eventually clog up the tilt & rise and fall mechanism. Dry lubricant is probably best or even a wax is less likely to cause you issues further down the line.

My first suggestion to you would be to remove the 2 drive belts and check the blade spindle bearings for excessive noise or excessive play....my guess would be they are most likely to be worn out....
 

BorisTheBlade

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How far you want to strip it down is entirely up to you Boris, but a good clean up to remove all the sawdust would be the first place to start.

As I said, the " Bolt" you keep referring to is actually a welded boss that is part of the U shaped motor mount. There is a pivot shaft in the centre of that boss than in turn is held in position by the small circlip.

When you've managed to clean up all the sawdust, you should see that yours will look like my pictures.👍

Regarding lubrication,....I try and avoid grease or oil of any kind when I refurbish these old saws as it will only attract the dust and will eventually clog up the tilt & rise and fall mechanism. Dry lubricant is probably best or even a wax is less likely to cause you issues further down the line.

My first suggestion to you would be to remove the 2 drive belts and check the blade spindle bearings for excessive noise or excessive play....my guess would be they are most likely to be worn out....

Ok nice one, it's a Startrite 165 with original motor, 7.3a 1.5hp high 2000s rpm. I'm picking up imperial Allen keys today. Will also need to fashion a riving knife. Trying to source a manual to figure out the max blade capacity. I already have brand new 254mm Freud 42t and 60t blades from previous saw so hoping I may be able to get away with it but looks like it may touch the riving knife "holder thingy" - that's the technical terminology right? I will then need to get some gauge plate to make riving knives once I know the capacity.
 

Distinterior

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Ok nice one, it's a Startrite 165 with original motor, 7.3a 1.5hp high 2000s rpm. I'm picking up imperial Allen keys today. Will also need to fashion a riving knife. Trying to source a manual to figure out the max blade capacity. I already have brand new 254mm Freud 42t and 60t blades from previous saw so hoping I may be able to get away with it but looks like it may touch the riving knife "holder thingy" - that's the technical terminology right? I will then need to get some gauge plate to make riving knives once I know the capacity.

That motor size (1.5hp) is bigger than normal.....The 240v motor for that saw should be 1.25hp ...900watts.....2850 rpm...A Brook Crompton "Gryphon" motor.....

To get a manual, you can download a copy from here.....

You can also buy a new riving knife from there as well. Not cheap, but at least you know it will fit perfectly and save you faffing about making one.

The maximum diameter blade for that saw is 230mm or 9" in old money.
Dont try and fit your Freud blade in it, as you will end up putting undue stress on the motor and bearings.

Edit. .....Also, bear In mind, the spindle size ( hole in the blade) on that saw is also imperial.....Its 5/8", so you would need to be certain you buy the correct blade or buy a blade with the correct reducing bush to suit 5/8".
 
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