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Show me your dust/chip extraction system!

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kidwellj

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Long time hobbyist here finally starting to buy power tools now that I'm no longer completely broke.

I've begun trying to conceptualise the dust/chip extraction air filtration etc. aspect of my kit. I'm terribly grateful for all the resources here on dust extraction especially - this has been quite an eye opening experience learning about how this hobby can have such severe impacts on my health! So I'm keen to do this well, albeit on a budget, but even after reading the amazing guide by @siggy_7 (three times), Bill Pentz’s entire website, and J. Phil Thien's website (patent trolls beware!), I'm still left a bit bufuddled about how this all translates to specific purchases for me. What actual products out there map onto "LPHV" and "HPLV"? I get the well-explained underlying concepts here, but am strugglig to identify specific pieces of equipment that satisfy these descriptions. And I'm struggling to grasp a final "total system" amidst some of the specific disagreements (cyclone or Thein extractor?!) that is implied here.

A few notes re: my use case. Long term work for me will be all over the map, but I'll be launching in the near future into home renovation, mostly cabinet making in earnest to start off, so mitre saw, kreg jig, router, orbital sander, planer thicknesser, plunge saw, etc. I don't have a large space for a shop, so I'll mostly be working on a mobile basis, using a pair of ToughBuilt C700s for an ad hoc table and mitre/table saw on its own stand. This will be work outdoors sometimes, but also indoors where I'm doing cabinetry probably.

I've ordered a 3M 7503 Half-Mask as that seems to be the obvious starting point. I'll be attending to dust extraction at the site of work with each of my power tools (many specific tools yet to be purchased, but I've been mindful of comments here on the forum re: dust extraction), and suspect I need some combination of fan, vacuum/extractor, and cyclone on a bin, but no concrete idea of what that needs to be. Budget needs to be under £500.

Happy to hear specific product recommendations, but also (in trying to grasp the "system" concept) I'm wondering if some members would mind doing a bit of "show and tell" sharing what specific equipment (home made or shop purchased) you've finally gravitated towards that serves to manage dust/chip extraction and air filtration. Please include everything - masks, homemade hoses, hoover, etc etc etc.
 

Mike Jordan

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Look at a post dated 14 May 2016 called dust extraction. Don't listen to the penny pinching clowns who advocate plastic pipes and home made blast gates ! Do it once properly. The Fox 842 extractor seems to take some beating .(£250.00) there is plenty of advice on here, it's a question asked very frequently. A decent system will take away the dust into a separate space , yes it will need you to let in fresh air and lose heat in the winter, don't worry it beats breathing in dust.
 

DBT85

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A 35 micron extractor for use with fine dust tools like an orbital sander is not a way of doing it once and properly. I say this as a one day penny pinching clown. :roll:
 

kidwellj

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Trying to read between the lines here - but as I put in my original post, I'm struggling with the finer details (and I have read dozens of posts on this forum). Are you referring to the Fox 842 extractor with ref. to "35 micron"? Would you recommend an alternative (irrespective of cost)?
 

MikeJhn

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Dust and Chips are two different things, you need a Chip extractor (HVLP) and a Vacuum extractor (LVHP) one can't do both, I use a large Chip extractor with a pleated paper filter on top, not a bag and a Large two motor Vacuum extractor, its a Numatic George not the Henry.
 

Doug71

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I know dust extraction is important but I do think people spend a lot of time overthinking it.

For anything that produces chips or large amounts of waste you need a bag over bag ( preferably filter over bag) extractor, something like the Fox model mentioned. From your list you would only need that for the planer thicknesses.

For power tools you need a vacuum type extractor, preferably with power take off so the vac starts when you start the tool.

Like most things the more you spend the better quality you get, better build, run quieter etc.

What I think doesn't get mentioned enough are the actual tools, some tools are just better designed then others when it comes to dust extraction. You can have the best dust extraction system going but if the tool isn't sending the dust in the right direction the dust extraction can't do it's job..
 

heimlaga

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In my humble oppinion the only on site dust extraction that works and is portable enough is a dust mask and doing most machine work outdoors.

For my part time professional workshop I am right now building a cyklone dust collector to Bill Pentz drawings.
The 2,2 kW bag over bag type collector that I have used for years proved to let too much fine dust through the filter bag. My respiratory system doesn't like this amount of fine dust.
I tested a very expensive filter cartridge on it and immediately got rid of all respiratory irritation but then I learned that filter cartridges wear our quickly if the chips get in there as they always do on a bag over bag collector. Therefore I am now welding up a cyklone from 2 mm sheets to Bill Pentz design. The "new" blower that will power it is a secondhand 4kW unit with 40cm impeller.

The plan is to send the air from the blower though the filter cartridge in winter and through a hose out the door in summer.

And...yes..... I am one of those penny pinching clowns who reuse old spiral ducting recovered from demolition sites and make my own blast gates. The iron barrels that will hold the chip from the cyklone have once contained apple juice concentrate. The blower came from a local scrap yard. I found the flexible hose that will lead from the cyklone to the barrel on the beach when I was out kayaking. The ducting that will lead from the cyklone to the filter came from another local scrap yard as did the square tubing for the frame. The wye-delta starter for the motor came from a closed down cabinet door factory.
Anyway..... I put health before greed but I do it on the cheap.
 

kidwellj

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heimlaga - I'd love to hear more about your salvaging process. I'm all over freecycle and whatnot, so very happy to scrounge as long as it'll do the job.
 

MikeK

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I built my shop in half of the fully enclosed basement of my house. I added a dividing wall, with entry door, to separate the shop from the rest of the basement and provide some sound isolation from the rest of the house. My basement is completely below grade and I can't vent outside, or rely on external fresh air, so dust extraction was important to me.

The design of the wall included a 1x2 meter room to contain the dust extraction system and air compressor. I have a lot of equipment crammed into this 25 square meter shop, and here is a Sketchup image of the current configuration showing just the shop portion. The yellow rectangle on the left is a Sjöbergs Elite 2000 workbench. The big lump in the middle is a Minimax SC2 Classic slider saw.



What is not shown in the layout is the overhead 120mm steel ducting for the saw and P/T. I have since removed the ducting over the miter saw station in order to add another block of shelves for more tools. I kept two ports for the sander and miter saw. The bandsaw and P/T will share a hose, since I can only use one at a time and must move the bandsaw out of the corner in order to use it.

Here is an image of the DC closet, minus the air compressor.



My DC consists of a 3HP Bernardo motor and blower assembly, an Oneida Steel Super Dust Deputy cyclone, a 35-gallon plastic trash can, two Wynn 35B222NANO filters, two Wynn filter pans, and a custom plenum I built from plywood. As soon as my list of projects is manageable, I'll replace the Super Dust Deputy cyclone with a Super Dust Deputy XL cyclone and replace the 120mm ducting with 150mm ducting. I'll also make a better plenum and get rid of the flex tubing.

Here is another image of the DC closet showing the air compressor beneath the Wynn filters.



When I designed the closet, I underestimated the amount of space required to route the 120mm ducting to the main shop. The new wall section is only 30cm before the door frame, and should have been 50cm. If I ever have to tear down the wall, I'll give more thought into the duct runs.

Here is an image of the ducting as I was installing it. The mostly disassembled SC2 is in the lower center of the image, but the ducting for the saw and P/T are installed. I installed blast gates at every point where I will transition to flexible 120mm hose for the tools.



Here is an image of the shop as it looks today, but it is still a work in progress. The miter station is almost complete, but I need to add the trim to the exposed plywood edges and add a dust barrier for the miter saw.



In the upper right hand corner of the image, suspended from the ceiling, is my latest addition, a Record Power AC400 air cleaner. I wanted a larger unit, but my available ceiling space is limited and the AC400 is the only unit I could find that would fit. As good as the DC system is, some dust is still missed, especially when using the miter saw. I have a Dylos DC1700 air quality monitor to let me know when I need to take a break and let the AC400 do its job. When I close the door and let it run for about 15 minutes, the dust count is down to normal. In fact, the dust count in my shop before I start working is lower than the rest of the house on a normal day. The Dylos can't differentiate between wood dust, pollen, or any other small particle.
 

Peptidoglycan

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This... this is a thing of beauty. But it is an exceptional idea to close off the dust extraction space. I’m in the process of remodelling a 2-car garage (it’s less nice than that sounds) and it would be trivial to build a wall around the dust collection. Will be saving this post for future reference.
 

GrahamF

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DBT85":36c2wpqb said:
A 35 micron extractor for use with fine dust tools like an orbital sander is not a way of doing it once and properly. I say this as a one day penny pinching clown. :roll:
Agreed but they're not suitable for sanding dust anyway, that needs HPLV vac. I have the Charnwood version of that extractor with the cartridge filter but, the Charnwood uses plastic bags which don't breathe for waste, whereas the Fox one uses cloth so, even with cartridge, filtration would be bad.
 

MikeJhn

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MikeK":qx0n5vmk said:
I built my shop in half of the fully enclosed basement of my house. I added a dividing wall, with entry door, to separate the shop from the rest of the basement and provide some sound isolation from the rest of the house. My basement is completely below grade and I can't vent outside, or rely on external fresh air, so dust extraction was important to me.

The design of the wall included a 1x2 meter room to contain the dust extraction system and air compressor. I have a lot of equipment crammed into this 25 square meter shop, and here is a Sketchup image of the current configuration showing just the shop portion. The yellow rectangle on the left is a Sjöbergs Elite 2000 workbench. The big lump in the middle is a Minimax SC2 Classic slider saw.



What is not shown in the layout is the overhead 120mm steel ducting for the saw and P/T. I have since removed the ducting over the miter saw station in order to add another block of shelves for more tools. I kept two ports for the sander and miter saw. The bandsaw and P/T will share a hose, since I can only use one at a time and must move the bandsaw out of the corner in order to use it.

Here is an image of the DC closet, minus the air compressor.



My DC consists of a 3HP Bernardo motor and blower assembly, an Oneida Steel Super Dust Deputy cyclone, a 35-gallon plastic trash can, two Wynn 35B222NANO filters, two Wynn filter pans, and a custom plenum I built from plywood. As soon as my list of projects is manageable, I'll replace the Super Dust Deputy cyclone with a Super Dust Deputy XL cyclone and replace the 120mm ducting with 150mm ducting. I'll also make a better plenum and get rid of the flex tubing.

Here is another image of the DC closet showing the air compressor beneath the Wynn filters.



When I designed the closet, I underestimated the amount of space required to route the 120mm ducting to the main shop. The new wall section is only 30cm before the door frame, and should have been 50cm. If I ever have to tear down the wall, I'll give more thought into the duct runs.

Here is an image of the ducting as I was installing it. The mostly disassembled SC2 is in the lower center of the image, but the ducting for the saw and P/T are installed. I installed blast gates at every point where I will transition to flexible 120mm hose for the tools.



Here is an image of the shop as it looks today, but it is still a work in progress. The miter station is almost complete, but I need to add the trim to the exposed plywood edges and add a dust barrier for the miter saw.



In the upper right hand corner of the image, suspended from the ceiling, is my latest addition, a Record Power AC400 air cleaner. I wanted a larger unit, but my available ceiling space is limited and the AC400 is the only unit I could find that would fit. As good as the DC system is, some dust is still missed, especially when using the miter saw. I have a Dylos DC1700 air quality monitor to let me know when I need to take a break and let the AC400 do its job. When I close the door and let it run for about 15 minutes, the dust count is down to normal. In fact, the dust count in my shop before I start working is lower than the rest of the house on a normal day. The Dylos can't differentiate between wood dust, pollen, or any other small particle.
Thats not a workshop, that's an operating theatre.
 

kidwellj

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Wow! Thanks for the demo. That's definitely something to aspire towards. Was hoping for a few more pics from other users, but I get it, this is a question that is often repeated. I've read nearly 3 dozen posts across the forum on that topic.

Here's a quick round-up of what I've gathered so far: bearing in mind that all my tools will be mobile and most often outside, none of these will be "fixed" heavy-duty power tools, though some will put out quite a lot of dust and chips (like the table saw and planer, and in a different way my orbital and router).

But generally a decent shop vac which I can use purely for extraction (ideally with a pm2.5 filter to catch all the dust before it heads out into the room) with a decent cyclonic filter in front of it on top of a large adapted bin will do the trick. I've got a 3M face mask on the way and also plan to run filtration straight to the worksite on tools, possibly running dual ported tubes off extraction port and at the site of cutting (in the case of the Dewalt table saw I've just aquired). On top of all that, when I'm doing work indoors, I'll have a big blower set up to push out all the air for a good half hour when I'm done for the day.

That sound about right? Would love to hear whether anyone has advice on the level of power and size of port on shop vac that will be suitable for tools I've now got in place (Metabo KGS254M Mitre Saw, Metabo SXE450 Orbital Sander, Dewalt dw745 Table Saw, Dewalt dw734 Planer)... 1200w and 50mm enough in your experience?
 

GrahamF

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kidwellj":3tmk5rnq said:
Would love to hear whether anyone has advice on the level of power and size of port on shop vac that will be suitable for tools I've now got in place (Metabo KGS254M Mitre Saw, Metabo SXE450 Orbital Sander, Dewalt dw745 Table Saw, Dewalt dw734 Planer)... 1200w and 50mm enough in your experience?
I have a couple of shop vacs for hand tools, a Karcher with power takeoff and an ancient AquaVac. I think 1400w is the maximum power for domestic vacs now but get the most powerful you can find. I use these for connecting to tools. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07V3841HR? ... th=1&psc=1

For your planer and saw, HVLP is better suited. I originally had one of these which is ideal for small workshop single tool use and portability, can be had with or without fine dust cartridge - https://www.poolewood.co.uk/product/cha ... ctor-w685/
 
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