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Should you speak the truth?

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DBT85

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A good friend is one that can take you calling them a dick if they are being a dick.

On the subject of vaccines I am all for letting people choose whether to get a vaccine, just as I am all for people choosing whether to do business with or see people who haven't for non medical reasons.

It'll be moot anyway, as soon as the likes of Spain or France say you can't come here without a vaccine the amount of holdouts that are worried about Bill Gates controlling them with 5g signals will dissipate becase they'll want to go on holiday.
 
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D_W

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If one is vaccinated at this point, the risks are fairly low. The third world will continue to culture covid, not us.

WA state here in the us has one death per month in the vulnerable vaccine group of 1.2 million. Only 5 hospitalizations per month. I can't imagine how many deaths and hospitalizations have occurred for other reasons.

If the vaccine take rate is reasonably high, it's time to stop dwelling on other people. I'm vaccinated. If someone else doesn't want to be, I don't care. You're getting too wound up about sensationalism brought by news and real life is passing you by, and you may be alienating people for no good reason.
 

artie

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The original question I think was about telling the truth.

In my experience the more truth you tell the less (so called) friends you will have.

As for travel, vaccinations, etc. it's not my business to try to control what others do or don't do unless they pose a clear and present danger.
 

D_W

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In my experience the more truth you tell the less (so called) friends you will have.
That's true, but not everyone wants a huge group of friends. There are some of us scatterbrained who generally prefer to stick to a small group of friends worth talking to or being around. If any of those friends of mine didn't get vaccinated, I wouldn't bother them about it. If they said something false, I'd point them to data, but that would be about the end of it.

I now know a whole lot of people who have been vaccinated. I don't know a single person who has been vaccinated and gotten sick except one person who got a shot on a friday and went to work on a monday and got covid from a coworker (that was his first shot). That's not really advisable behavior. Some of my friends think the election was stolen in the US and others think their kids have low odds of not being involved in a school shooting - i think both groups are bonkers (both don't understand odds very well and could be spending their time doing something gainful).
 

TominDales

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my brother refuses to have the vaccine, it's caused a major rift between us but I think he's an i-diot for not taking it, you should always speak your mind even if it means falling out, I have told him that I'm not going to be in a room with him unless he gets the vaccine and I'm not joking either, what annoys me is that some people think they're somehow immune from getting it and it's that kind of attitude that will continue to wreck the economy and destroy and erode our rights and freedoms for longer, they don't understand that THEY are the reason we're in this mess, it's not the government, it's them and their actions.
Families can be supper annoying and idiotic. However taking vaccines is an emotionally, psychologically challenging issue. I'm very much in favour of vaccination, it is one of the safer medical procedures, similar risks to taking paracetamol or aspirin. However it is quite personal to have a foreign agent injected into your body and some quite normal people can be vaccine hesitant. In the case of COVID they run the risk of a getting a very nasty disease, so its quite a personal choice.
We will need herd immunity at some stage and that will depend on 70 to 85% of the population being vaccinated - depending on the effectiveness of the vaccines. However that leaves room for 20 to 30% to abstain. The risk they face is catching the disease, which when incidence is low may be fine, but, they are vulnerable should there be another outbreak. The other pressure your brother will face, is requirements for certain activities such as going on an airline, taking a holiday, going to concerts etc, he may have to purchase expensive PCR tests or have regular lateral flow tests. There will be pressures on those hesitant to take the vaccine. I suspect your brother will have a fair amount of soul searching to do.
I would say vaccine hesitancy is in a different category to disobeying the social distance rules.
As for my brother, he made the excuse to see his in-laws in New Zealand (also where his daughters are studying) and has spent the last 3 months in the sunshine. He did have to spend 2 weeks locked in a hotel with his wife and their youngest child at their expense.....
 

DBT85

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80% herd immunity will only work with the original covid-19 variant that was less virulent. With the newer ones that are now most common, closer to 90 and 95% is required.

No but I think it's reasonable to assume said reaper will have a nice haircut...
By the end of tomorrow, certainly!

I'm booked in for Tuesday. A birthday haircut!
 

mikej460

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80% herd immunity will only work with the original covid-19 variant that was less virulent. With the newer ones that are now most common, closer to 90 and 95% is required.


By the end of tomorrow, certainly!

I'm booked in for Tuesday. A birthday haircut!
Happy birthday - have a good one 🍻
 

RobinBHM

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Should I have kept my gob shut
Sometimes the pragmatic solution is to not get involved.

Sometimes telling people the truth doesn't have a positive outcome.....the reality is when he told you, he had already travelled, so any damage was done. Telling him he did wrong couldn't undo anything, you might want to ask yourself what your motivation was for saying something.

Reading between the lines, I wonder if your mate pushed you for an answer as he knew he did wrong and wanted your support as validation. You probably told him what he knew......and was denying to himself.
 

mikej460

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Seeing my mum and dad for the first time since xmas day, she's made me cupcakes and I'm getting county reknowned sausage rolls and scotch eggs from the Fladbury Pie Shop! Who needs more?
Excellent! It'll be a good day all round.
 

TominDales

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Seeing my mum and dad for the first time since xmas day, she's made me cupcakes and I'm getting county reknowned sausage rolls and scotch eggs from the Fladbury Pie Shop! Who needs more?
Have a good one.
I'm off to the barber first thing tomorrow Its over four months since I had one and my wife wont let me near any family photos. I've had the vaccine so feel relatively ok about it, one covid case in our areas this w/e and I'll take a mask. I need to smarten up, the local school has a safeguarding inspection on Tuesday from the council/ofsted, and I'm pastoral governor so don't want to be told to get a short back and sides.....
 

TominDales

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Sometimes the pragmatic solution is to not get involved.

Sometimes telling people the truth doesn't have a positive outcome.....the reality is when he told you, he had already travelled, so any damage was done. Telling him he did wrong couldn't undo anything, you might want to ask yourself what your motivation was for saying something.

Reading between the lines, I wonder if your mate pushed you for an answer as he knew he did wrong and wanted your support as validation. You probably told him what he knew......and was denying to himself.
One exception to this generally sound advice, is sometime friends need someone to tell them the truth for their own good. That's often hard, and needs judgement as to the right time etc, but its what a true friend does. We had a girl in the office who had bad BO and its was starting to become a the joke behind her back. We draw lots on who was going to tactfully tell her, most of the strong men turned instantly into jelly at the prospect.....
 

KingAether

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If me and me mates didn't often say some really challenging things to each other in reaction to our respective choices/actions/opinions i'd worry something was wrong. Especially after 40 years he should be able to hear your concern, take it for what it is and respect it whether that means understanding but agreeing to disagree or having a change of mind over it. Personally i'd say you did the right thing being open with your concerns, if he doesn't like that its a shame but it is what it is.
 

DBT85

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Have a good one.
I'm off to the barber first thing tomorrow Its over four months since I had one and my wife wont let me near any family photos. I've had the vaccine so feel relatively ok about it, one covid case in our areas this w/e and I'll take a mask. I need to smarten up, the local school has a safeguarding inspection on Tuesday from the council/ofsted, and I'm pastoral governor so don't want to be told to get a short back and sides.....
I know that feeling. I wanted to get booked in for the 12th but every slot went in about 20 minutes! Already got my next one booked in already just in case.

Looking forward to a nice short neat haircut again and a neatly trimmed beard. I currently sport the "through a hedge backwards" effect.
 

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