Shooting planes compared

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I had the opportunity to directly compare the LN #51, LN #9 and LV LAJ on different shooting boards. My observations are here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... pared.html

Looking forward to any discussion ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[xy mosian]

Derek, Thank you for a very clear, and concise, comparative review of these planes and shooting boards. You have convinced me the next shooting board I make will have a five degree ramp.
Now I wonder if I can add a shallow groove for an old woodie?

xy

 

[jimi43]

Superb quailty review once again Derek....and for someone who has yet to get to grips with a shooting board...some interesting tips there for both construction and use.

Of course.....you know exactly which board I liked the most! :mrgreen: :wink:

A novice question perhaps....but with a standard Bailey plane...would it be possible to create a "track" by having another fence which guided the top of the body or am I missing something obvious here?

My workmate is in Perth at the moment on holiday....I am sure she will be on about that trip for many months to come!

Take care my friend and thanks again!

Jim

 

[AndyT]

A novice question perhaps....but with a standard Bailey plane...would it be possible to create a "track" by having another fence which guided the top of the body or am I missing something obvious here?

Certainly is possible. If you have a copy of "The resourceful Woodworker" by the late lamented Robert Wearing, he describes exactly this on pages 130-132. If you don't have a copy, I recommend getting one. (Generally reasonably easy to find in the usual places.)

 

[jimi43]

Cheers Andy! Will look that up!

Jim

 

[Harbo]

Here's a mitre one based on Robert Wearings book: "Making Woodworking Aids & Devices" which I think is still print?

Rod

 

[Alf]

Prompted by this thread, I finally put up a couple of articles from The Woodworker on "improved" shooting boards a la Wearing. They can be found here, at the bottom of the first section.

(Don't think Robert Wearing is late and lamented yet, is he? Did I miss something?)

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Derek, Thank you for a very clear, and concise, comparative review of these planes and shooting boards. You have convinced me the next shooting board I make will have a five degree ramp.
Now I wonder if I can add a shallow groove for an old woodie?

xy

Hi xy

I have added the following to the summary of the article:

The motivation behind my comparison of the planes and the boards is to try and understand the dynamics in shooting - what will lead to improved performances, either with better tools or with existing tools? I do not mean to appear to be advocating expensive tools - just that the ones I did include are recognised to be specialists for shooting.

Equally, I am not meaning to be recommending via my conclusions that everyone should use a ramped shooting board, but that they lead to improved performance indicates that they offer "something". Is it the skew blade, a slicing action, a low cutting angle. Is it the plane or the board .. ? Clearly technique plays a large part since many are very comfortable with the performance of less-than-ideal bench planes. The #52, in taking some of the technique out of the arena, identifies that it is in the equation of shooting.

I would like my article to be the first part of two, with the second dealing with technique (which is why I included it in the Furniture Building section of my website and not the Tool Review section).

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Superb quailty review once again Derek....and for someone who has yet to get to grips with a shooting board...some interesting tips there for both construction and use.

Of course.....you know exactly which board I liked the most! :mrgreen: :wink:

A novice question perhaps....but with a standard Bailey plane...would it be possible to create a "track" by having another fence which guided the top of the body or am I missing something obvious here?

My workmate is in Perth at the moment on holiday....I am sure she will be on about that trip for many months to come!

Take care my friend and thanks again!

Jim

Hi Jim

Now if your workmate contacts me, one of the shooting boards could be flying back to the UK with her!

The idea of a side fence to hold the plane ala #52 is not new. LN included it in their design (Link in the link in the article) - all that is needed is a strip of hardwood with some oversoze holes to add as fine adjusters. I had planned to include one with each board, but ran out of time when building them for the Event. I think that they are a Very Good Idea since they control the plane. Not essential at all since good technique does that too.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[xy mosian]

Derek, Thank you for a very clear, and concise, comparative review of these planes and shooting boards. You have convinced me the next shooting board I make will have a five degree ramp.
Now I wonder if I can add a shallow groove for an old woodie?

xy

Hi xy

I have added the following to the summary of the article:

The motivation behind my comparison of the planes and the boards is to try and understand the dynamics in shooting - what will lead to improved performances, either with better tools or with existing tools? I do not mean to appear to be advocating expensive tools - just that the ones I did include are recognised to be specialists for shooting.

Equally, I am not meaning to be recommending via my conclusions that everyone should use a ramped shooting board, but that they lead to improved performance indicates that they offer "something". Is it the skew blade, a slicing action, a low cutting angle. Is it the plane or the board .. ? Clearly technique plays a large part since many are very comfortable with the performance of less-than-ideal bench planes. The #52, in taking some of the technique out of the arena, identifies that it is in the equation of shooting.

I would like my article to be the first part of two, with the second dealing with technique (which is why I included it in the Furniture Building section of my website and not the Tool Review section).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks for the reply Derek. I realise that you had not made any specific recomendations in your review.
However I took your findings to suggest that a ramped shooting board at least tends to help towards better shooting. Apart from that, as I see the situation, there are at least two other benefits to be gained from using a ramped board. Firstly there will be a small gain to be had from having gravity help with the movement of the plane, secondly a greater width of the palne blade will be used thus spreading the wear, and possibly maintaining the edge slightly longer. Minor things I know, but as it should be very slightly more difficult to make a ramped board I see no real reason not to.
I am looking forward to reading the second article in the series. Again many thanks for your efforts.

xy

 

[woodbloke]

A really useful article Derek...if you recollect our recent PM conversation, that will come in very handy :wink: now bookmarked - Rob

 

[jimi43]

Hi Jim

Now if your workmate contacts me, one of the shooting boards could be flying back to the UK with her!

That's very kind of you Derek....I'm not sure however, if I can get hold of her. Also knowing her, she will fill her bags with antipodean stuffed toys....Koala, Wallaby, Kangaroo...I can see it now! :mrgreen:

I will try her Facebook and let you know...I am sure she can't avoid posting on that so she might get the message, you never know.

Cheers mate

Jim

 

[Karl]

A really useful article Derek...if you recollect our recent PM conversation, that will come in very handy :wink: now bookmarked - Rob

Very cryptic :lol:

 

[woodbloke]

A really useful article Derek...if you recollect our recent PM conversation, that will come in very handy :wink: now bookmarked - Rob

Very cryptic :lol:

:wink: :lol: - Rob

 

[AndyT]

(Don't think Robert Wearing is late and lamented yet, is he? Did I miss something?)

Alf, you've got me worried. I'd hate to start a rumour about something like that, and I think I was wrong. I certainly can't find any evidence. I think I remember seeing something about his workshop being cleared and sold off, and maybe my faulty memory jumped to a conclusion.
I'm very sorry, and wish him well.

 

[ydb1md]

The idea of a side fence to hold the plane ala #52 is not new. LN included it in their design (Link in the link in the article) - all that is needed is a strip of hardwood with some oversoze holes to add as fine adjusters.
Regards from Perth

Derek

I added a side fence to my shooting board -- I use a LN no9 -- and it works nicely. The biggest improvement is mitigating the need to apply lateral pressure to the plane when I'm shooting end-grain or mitres; it removes one variable from the equation. It also makes each pass take a more consistent shaving.

The no9 does a fine job but I still lust after the LN no51. I recently acquired a bronze no9, so maybe I should sell the iron one to help fund the no51. :wink:

 

[Modernist]

(Don't think Robert Wearing is late and lamented yet, is he? Did I miss something?)

Alf, you've got me worried. I'd hate to start a rumour about something like that, and I think I was wrong. I certainly can't find any evidence. I think I remember seeing something about his workshop being cleared and sold off, and maybe my faulty memory jumped to a conclusion.
I'm very sorry, and wish him well.

Bob lives in a nursing home in Shropshire following a stroke. I believe his wife is also in some form of sheltered accommodation nearby. His workshop and belongings were sold off when he moved. His is in occasional contact with my father, who was a friend at Loughborough in the 1940's, when they trained as woodwork teachers under Edward Barnsley.

His books remain sound advice and set out the traditionally correct methods for many standard constructions in addition to his comprehensive innovations on "aids and devices".

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Hi Derek
Just to humour the geometrists who know jolly well that a ramped board can not produce a skewed or slicing cut from a blade jigged square to its direction of travel, how about putting a 5° chamfer on the trailing edge of your test stock and then shoot it on both ramped and unramped boards. My suspicion is that the perceived benefit of the ramped board would instead then manifest when using the flat board.
This still leaves a more distributed wear of the iron as a benefit of ramped boards of course.
Cheers
Steve
(Well if you will throw mummified chestnuts on the fire you have to expect someone to be daft enough to pick them up )

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

That should do it, Steve.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[AndyT]

Brian

Many thanks for clearing up my confused recollections and putting the record straight.
I envy you your family connections!