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Anonymous

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Hi all,

I'm about to knock up a door for a brick shed using T&G. Should the lap joints for the vertical and horizontal bracing of the T&G be
*glued* as well as screwed?

Also I take it that all the joints should be somewhat loose to allow for expansion?

Thanks

Square
 

sawdustalley

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The tounge and groove should run vertically.

You should re-inforse the door with a Z brace (Because its in the shape of a Z.
 

johnelliott

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With your ledge and brace door you will have the opportunity to do it right, not like the ready made ones. You can always tell the ready made ones because the upper brace runs one diagonal and the lower runs the other way, whereas on a purpose made door the braces each run the same way (they slope down towards the hinge side. To be really tasty the ledges should be notched to take the ends of the braces.
The t&g should be fixed with nails or screws in the middle of each board so that they can each shrink and expand as the weather gets drier and wetter. There is no scope for using glue on the t&g as the whole point it that each board should be able to expand and contract individually so that the gaps are spread evenly across the whole door
John
 
A

Anonymous

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My question was obviously as clear as mud. :)

To clarify, the door will consist of: vertical T&G, 3 horizontal rails, 2 vertical stiles and 2 diagonals.

The glue joints I was asking about are the 'lap' joints --or should that be 'half-lap' -- joining the horizontal 'rails' to the vertical 'styles'.

On the diagonals, John, after looking at some pictures, I'd just decided to make them go the way you've recommended. Not exactly sure why, but I did get the impression that that was the more 'up market' way of doing things! Btw, what kind of fancy notch is that to take the diagonals?

This isn't going to be up to much, anyway, as the wood I ended up with is all wrong: frame is going to be 22 mm x 100 mm (too thin) and the T&G is untreated knotty pine and too soft. Fortunately the door will be fairly well protected from the elements, and only needs to be a couple of feet wide. Hopefully the 'Cuprinol fence preserver' will do something.

Square
 
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Anonymous

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Hang on, sorry, that should be 'stiles' not styles.

Square
 

kityuser

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I'd just decided to make them go the way you've recommended. Not exactly sure why,
as with garden gates, the diagonals slope down towards the hinge side to support the weight of the "far side" from the hinges. Diagonals that slope down towards the latch side of the door/gate will offer no support when the door/gate tries to drop under its own weight.

its an easy mistake to make, as john said some larger companies make the same mistake. Take take a look at some of Jacksons fencing gates or even Forest Fencing gates !!!!!
 

DaveL

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Hi Square,
Hopefully the 'Cuprinol fence preserver' will do something.
I would recommend that you make the frame, cut the T&G to length and then use you Cuprinol on all the bits loose. When its dry fix the T&G to the frame and give it all another coat. That should give the best protection for the timber as all of the surfaces are treated, not just the outside ones.
 
A

Anonymous

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as with garden gates, the diagonals slope down towards the hinge side to support the weight of the "far side" from the hinges.
Yep, makes sense. Thanks. And regarding Jacksons, I actually have one of their 'diagonally erroneous gates. :)

DaveL: thanks, for the preservation stratagem. I'll do that.

But what about me lap joints, chaps? I'm about to start sawing... do I glue the lap joints of the frame itself or just screw them?? I'm now thinking probably not...

Square
 
A

Anonymous

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personally, I'd screw & glue them. I know that this would be cross-grain, but the expansion in the single width of the frame should not stress the joint unduly.
 
A

Anonymous

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Ok, thanks, glue and screws..

Anyway, this business of allowing room for expansion in joints is confusing me. For example: should the half lap joints that are used to join the vertical stiles and horizontal rails be tight? Or should there be a gap at the sides fo the joints? If there is a gap, then surely, most of the time (i.e. when not expanded fully), the lap joint isn't serving any purpose, and you might as well not have bothered cutting the joints in the first place and weakening the main frame?

Regarding diagonal bracing: any suggestions as to how to attach the diagonals to the rails and stiles? ...Hammer nails in from the side...or...drill holes and glue dowels?? And again, should the diagonal braces be closely in contact with the meeting points of the rails and stiles, or should there be a gap, and if so, they're not supporting the frame as such, most of the time, are they?

Square
 

bobthejoiner

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square,
from your discription I take it you mean a framed, ledged and braced batten dooor. This means you have the stiles aproox 4"x2"
top rail the same but the middle and bottom rails are 8" x less the thickness of your T&g boards. the method of jointing is mortice and tenons the middle and bottom rails being barefaced tenons. This means the tenon s arenot in the middle of the thickness of the timber but are from the face of the timber
Stiles and top rail should be rebated the thickness of your T&G and the tenons othe top rail will e long and short shoulders.
When fitting the T&G only 3 nails diagonaly across each board. If the door is to painted make sure you apply primer to the T&G of each board before assy;when boards have been fitted turn over the door and fit the braces making sure the slope down to the hinges.
If this is as clear as mud I am sorry feel free to ask relevant questions
Cheers Bob
 
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